TimR

Your best bet is to record the next gig. It may not be as bad as you think. We get a distorted view of what we think it (and what we want it to) sounds like. Listen to the recording and trim out the tunes you're not happy with, put it on a cd and give it to a musical mate for an honest evaluation without telling him what bits you're not happy with.

Sounds like you are playing on a standard pub band who occasionally get offered better gigs. The other guys play them because they come up but wouldn't go out if their way to find gigs like that. You have to recognise it for what it is and not tear yourself up over it. Sure we all sometimes find ourselves in bands that are musically well below our abilities. That's part of being a musician. Stick with it, relax, have fun and play the gigs.

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1335365787' post='1629954'] .... Now the band want to put up each track in its entirety even though we had agreed all the previous stuff!!! [/quote] LOL. You have made the schoolboy error. Just because they didn't repy to your emails and looked at you nodding with open mouths while you explained it does not mean they agreed with you.

Well it gets even better. I talked to them the other night. They were playing a G/C. That could be why my Bb sounds so bad. They tried the Bb/C and one of them said he couldn't hear the change of chord if we played it like that. I said that you would hear it when the singer sang because the guitars are just supposed to support the singer and not always play everything. When we added vocals it all worked fine. I'm suprised that I'm still surprised by guitarists who think they're the only instrument playing

That's as I suspected then. It's not as big a problem as I'm making out really. The inversions are usually fine although in one tune we have an E/G# inversion which sounds pretty bad as one guitarist plays a big open E power chord on it and it tears my ears apart when I play G#. Just sounds completely at odds, I've asked him not to do it and he tries but he's learned it that way now so it's something I'll try to live with. Mainly it's when they do a C to a Bb/C type movement and I think there is something missing. I'll sit on the C but as they've moved down from a C to a Bb the top end movement 'sounds' wrong and awkward.

According to all the adverts I've seen you need to have your own gear, own transport and be experienced. That's band code for own a PA, van and know how to load it on your own at 1am.

I'm struggling a bit and hoping someone can describe this a bit better for me. We play a few tunes where the guitarists won't play the correct chord voicings. In most cases they've downloaded something from ultimate tab or wherever and aren't using their ears and comparing the tab go the original tune. I know that Bb/D is just the first inversion and can explain that to them but any ideas how to get them not to play the bottom Bb on a Bb/C. Is there a better musical term other than Bb with a C bass. Should I just break their fingers everytime they play the wrong chord?

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1333195788' post='1598573'] I find the best thing to play in that is dead simple...let the guitar play the riff and let the bass pump solid quavers on the root. I think it sounds better than doubling the riff. [/quote] Absolutely. That's what fills it out.

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1334988862' post='1624350'] ... We then decided to try Iron Maiden's Afraid To Shoot Strangers as a three piece and it really kicked . ... [/quote] It's all in the arrangements. If you can play a tune with acoustic guitar or a piani then everything else is just window dressing and the audience will still recognise the tune.

Without getting too technical. The active preamp provides what is called a buffer between the cable and the pickups. The impedance of the pickups vary with frequency and higher frequencies can be dulled. The preamp provides a constant load to your amplifier. It may sound the same volume but might not sound the same tonally.

We played a club gig where the manager kept telling us to play more rock and roll even though we had the dance floor full. We played a rock and roll tune and half the floor emptied. At the end of the gig we had loads of compliments from people who loved the fact that we hadn't played loads of Rock and Roll like the usual bands did.

Within reason. They're employing you as an entertainment specialist and it's your job to know what will get people up and dancing and having a good time. Whilst they may know their guests there are a lot of people who will ask for tunes that they like to LISTEN to but I know won't fill the dance floor, will be a PIA to learn and never played again. In that situation I'll get them to provide a break playlist and put the tunes on an iPod. There needs to be a good reason other than the person booking us doesn't particularly like that tune for us not to play it.

That's what I mean by pubs being loss leaders. If you're running a band the musicians expect to be paid at a certain level. My friend plays for a Big Band. They get paid the same regardless of gig. They also get travelling expenses if they submit receipts. However the band charges different amounts for each gig. The band leader keeps money back from the good payers to pay the musicians on the bad payers. I tried to implement this with one band because, as I saw it, we needed to do pub gigs to advertise the band but some members of the band wouldn't go out for less than a certain amount and picked and chose which gigs they were 'available' for. It didn't work because they were greedy and wanted their money there and then and wouldn't wait or do the pub gigs ("We're too good to do pubs"), and then complained we weren't getting any good gigs.

Makes you wonder what the point of having a regular band and rehearsals is.

People will dance to whatever you play as long as you play it with confidence and attitude. There are a bunch of standard tunes but you're right the black shirt White tie and Brown Eyed Girl are very cliche. You can't play ALL the party tunes. The secret is learning the latest tunes quickly and get them in the setlist and keeping that up to date on your website. If you play stuff from the Radio 2 playlist people will be more impressed than if you do Come On Elieen for a drunk 50something. You also MUST have a frontman/woman who can read the crowd, knows when to make a humerous remark and knows when not to and just crack on with the set.

Commiserations mate. I like the way you have undone your top button and rolled ip your sleeves in an attempt to look cool.

Red ties?

We all tend to get precious over our projects. Deps is the way to go. You don't HAVE to play the complex tunes. Put together a dep band with guitarist, call it something else. My 6 piece band once got booked for a gig. I knew the sax player couldn't do it when I took the booking. But then the drummer, keys and singer all dropped out. I found a dep singer who knew about 50% of our usual tunes. She emailled me a list of hers. The week before the guitarist came round my house and we put together some tunes from her list. The first time the guitarist, singer and drummer met was at the gig. Usually the person booking you is ok if you explain the situation well enough in advance and offer them the opportunity to cancel and book someone else. Normally they happy as you've saved them the hassle.

There are a lot of musicians who can't listen to the 'whole'. Bass players tend to be better at it which is why many of us become producers. I used to go to gigs and pull the bands apart concentrating on what they did badly. Then one gig the band were so musically awful but the audience were so into it I stopped. From that moment on I looked at a band to see what they are doing right and learn from that. I think the big mistake we all make is spend too long getting the music 'perfect' instead of getting the vibe right and getting out there and gigging. A gig is worth a thousand rehearsals. it's no good being able to play exactly like the original in the practice room if you've spent so long perfecting the tune that you have lost the vibe. The audience don't listen to the parts they listen to the whole and contrary to what we would like to believe we are visual creatures and use our eyes more than our ears. So if it looks good and sounds close then it is good. Unfortunately it's catch 22. You don't get good by practicing and you don't get gigs unless you're good. So get out there blag some gigs playing simple easy tunes well and move on from there.

Rule No1 on mentioning spelling. Always put in a mistake in your own post.. It's not really very grey. The taxman is fairly clear on what constitutes a hobby. I would suspect that the hobbyists fall into two distinct camps. Those that could show they don't make any money by including gear depreciation, travel to gigs, strings, practice room costs, coffee etc. and those that it would be pretty obvious that they're making no real money from gibing.

That's not quite what I'm saying. There are other things you have to provide when stepping up from the pub circuit. As examples PAT testing, Public Liability insurance, email correspondence spelled correctly I would also expect a written contract and a non returnable deposit. Once you have committed to a gig you're fairly bound to do it. Compared to pubs which you or they often cancel on the day, or sometimes when you arrive. This is why some people don't do private gigs. Not because they're not musically good or equipment is not up to scratch. Purely because they don't need the extra hasstle. Professionalism isn't just earning a living.

Obviously if you're not in it for the money and you are turning down party gigs in favour of pub gigs then that's up to you but you can't then complain that you're not getting paid much if 1) you don't want to be and 2) you're turning down better paid gigs. So my comment stands. You don't deserve to be. The thread is about money.

Lol. I play in a hobby band. I wasn't talking about the musicianship. That's not what is being discussed, it's the proffesionalism I'm talking about.

When it comes to parties soloists and duos are competing with discos as I imagine most of what they are playing has backing or simple arrangemnents. Couple that with the amount of set up time and gear. No drums for a start. Bands are different. Parties should be £450-£650 then dinner and dances £650-800 and weddings £800+ for your average pub type band stepping up from the pub circuit. Once you have an established client base then you can start to get a better feel for what you can charge them. The other issue is how much are you prepared to gig. One band I know do a pub gig every month.then a party. So they are busy enough then any extra they bump the price right up because they don't want to be gigging 3 or 4 times a month unless the money is there. You can tell hobby bands a mile off and they deserve to be paid £200 a gig.

As I say playing in a pub should be your loss leader and you should only be playing once every couple of months, not treating it as your main source of income. If you're playing pubs only and you're only getting £100-£200 and you want more then you have to improve your show and go for parties and weddings.