SumOne

Nice one, that should solve it. Still though, it's a bit of a omission for the ES-60 as far as I'm concerned to not have audio interface (or aux in, or bluetooth). I know it is on the budget end of things so compromises are needed but these features are important for that sort of beginner home piano players market, and increasingly there are the learning apps so you ideally need to be able to both send midi/audio via USB and receive it back to the piano for headphone listening. The solution seems to be to get a hub and an interface which is about £100 and a faff. It goes to show that there's almost always a trade-off for cost vs functions, no such thing as a free lunch! They've managed to make a 88 key keyboard with a good keybed and decent enough sounds for £300 but that is pretty much where the functionality stops. To add somethig quite basic like Bluetooth for backing tracks means ES-120 at £525, and something with a full USB interface for stuff like sound both back and forth with iPad/Laptop software is usually another step-up in cost.

I've had a couple of days with the Kawai ES-60 and am impressed, especially when considering the cost. Decent sounds, keybed, speakers, built quility. I think this review is very accurate. Something it should have though is a USB sound interface given that the main market is home practising and the popularity of apps like Simply Piano and Flowkey I think it's a big omission. e.g. I could plug the CK-61 into the iPad via USB to send midi, the Simply Piano app would then send both the backing track and piano audio back to the CK-61 where headphones can be connected for quiet practice. That's not possible with the ES-60: Can send midi via USB to the ipad but the backing track audio doesn't get sent back - and as ipads are annoying and don't have headphone outputs (the only in/out is the USB being used for midi) you can't get the audio all on playing together on one device. I added a USB interface and sent the line out from the keyboard to it and ipad USB out to the interface - that works to hear what is being played on keys and the backing track but it means there's no way of getting the midi into the ipad and if you are playing with headphones that means the app can't hear you.

That's a good take on it. I suppose there are those chord playing 6 string bass jazz types, and guitarists that have been forced to play bass so try and play as many notes as quickly as possible to show skill, and the sort of virtuoso fast playing that gets YouTube clips. They might might all have a different take on it.... But for any band I've been in it's much more about timing and using notes relatively sparingly, building the solid foundation rather than the facade.

Chainska Brassika, supported by Bob Rats in Southampton. They were both very good. Bob Rats: VID20251205203834.mp4

Yeah, it would be great to try them out side by side. Andertons are the nearest shop to me (about 1hr away) that sell the Nord and Numa so I might go on a road trip. As far as I can tell there is only a single Viscont Legend One for sale in the UK (Gear4Music have one in stock, but their shop in York with is a >12hr round trip from Chichester) so I think it'll need to be an online purchase (in which case Thomann are cheaper) if that's what I go for and prepare to use the return policy. I tried the MIDI thing via an M-Audio keyboard (which I've since sold) but it turned into a bit of a liability live. There was latency but odly it was only occasional, I'd optimise everything on the Laptop, ASIO , Airplane mode, close all other programmes etc. and use it exclusively for music but it still seemed to have a mind of it's own at the most crucial moments (perhaps due to the keyboard, interface, software plugins, DAW, Laptop processing power or RAM....I dunno what the cause was - a lot of variables and potential points of failure felt part of the issue. I then got a good gaming Laptop (still Windows not Mac) and UA Volt interface and that seemed to work well at home, but almost every time I turn it on some sort of software needs updating and that makes me nervous, and things like Organ drawbars and effect knobs being mapped differently to different presets with nothing on the Keyboard clearly indicating what's happening seems potentially confusing without looking at the Laptop screen which I'd rather not do live, and just the live practicalities of where to put the Laptop and interface and relying on USB cables etc just seems a bit of a faff and liability. But yeah, in theory I can see that a decent MIDI keyboard and Laptop gives almost unlimited sound options and upgrades and I am sure it works well for lots of people and probably is the future, perhaps I should give it another chance, I think having a good dedicated Macbook would probably be needed to be more certain of reliability and low latency.

My Yamaha CK-61 sold last night so I now have £ burning a hole in my pocket! ....well, not much £ as it has funded a Kawai ES-60 that's on the way from Thomann, I think that'll do well for home use (which includes taking abuse from young kids so I didn't want anything I'd be too precious about). It leaves me the start of a stage piano fund and I've had some offers for my Akai Key 37 so that'll increase the fund once it sells. So now I'm seriously hyped about what stage piano to get! It'll need to be 73....and even that size is pushing it as I need to take it to weekly rehearsals and fortnightly gigs along with all my Bass gear (there's a bit of swopping around of band members duties depending on songs) in a small car (VW Polo, which often also has a guitarist and all their stuff) and stage space is usually tight. Depending on how much I can convince myself is worth spending, the main contenders are now: £2k: Nord Electro 73 semi-weighted would be the Nord for me due to size, toughness, sounds, drawbars, price (vs the Stage), resale value (£2k is stretching my budget, but the resale after 10 years is roughly £1,500 so I'm counting it almost like a loan plan - my maths is it'll be £50 per year for 10 years, the painful initial £2k is actually a £1.5k refundable deposit!). The v7 seems overdue so I'd wait for that though - either to get new or for the older second-hand versions to get cheaper. £1.5k: Viscount Legend One 73 is a decent size and weight, sounds good, good keybed (a knowledgeable online reviewer guesses it has Fatar TP-8), Organ drawbars (and lots of them!). All reviews seem to rate it highly - some a bit less so for the non-organ sounds but what I've heard all sound good to me. Perhaps it's just smoke and mirrors to make a modern thing look/feel/sound vintage gives me the impression of being something that'll still be good 30 years from now, keeping things simple and nailing the hardware for live use and the 'bread and butter' Piano/EP/Organ sounds will stand the test of time if expectations remain that It'll just do that particular use. Main negatives are it's a bit niche and new so unlikely to be many second hand for a while and no shops to test it, it's not proven to last for years like the Nords and resale value might not be great. I think I'm pretty much sold on this though, something about it has really grabbed me, it's just a shame that testing it out isn't an option - but I guess return policies are good nowadays. £850. Numa X 73, good keybed for the price, good interface, the sounds haven't blown me away (just from online reviews) the main thing that puts me off are the Organ sounds don't seem great and lack of drawbars. I kind of think this will feel 'okay - it'll do' but will feel a compromise and won't be something I'm really pleased to keep for many years, it probably isn't much of an upgrade to the Yamaha CK-61 I've just sold other than the extra octave and better keybed. I've tried the Roland and Yamaha options in their showrooms and none in my price range really did it for me. The Yamaha YC 73 has slightly narrower octave width which I thought was noticeable on the CK I owned and not ideal, the sounds didn't wow me. The Roland VR-730 didn't feel a bit improvement over the CK-61, and the V Stage 76 is out of my price range, and both seemed massive - almost deliberately made to take up as much space as possible!

Nice one, that's very useful.

I've been doing some nerding on Nord Electro 73 prices new vs second hand: V1, 2001, ? Now £600 V2, 2006 £1,400. Now £900 V3, 2008 £1,500. Now £1,000 V4,2012 £1,600. Now £1,300 V5 2015 £1,700. Now £1,400 V6 2018 £1,900. Now £1,600 It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of financial difference to buy new or second hand if you plan on owning for 10 years then selling as they start to de-value more once they are a few versions old. If fact, buying new is perhaps financially better in some ways. e.g. a 13 year old V4 today = £1,300, in 10 years it'll be worth roughly £700 (if it is ballpark equivilant to a 23 year old V1 price today), so that'll cost £600 for 10 years use. V7 is quite overdue, if history is any guide then it'll be about £2,200 and would be worth roughly £1,700 10 years later, so that'll cost £500 for 10 years of use. A selling point of the Nord is how well known they are and how well they hold their value. I think the Viscount Legend One 73 is still my favorite though (and is a bit cheaper at £1,555), but I imagine that if I went to sell it after 10 years there would be a much smaller market and probably more devaluation than a Nord. But in an ideal world I'll still be happy with whatever I get and it'll last me longer than that.

Don talking about something that has also annoyed me for a while - the often repeated online misconception that Reggae Basslines don't play on the one, and that the 'one drop' is referring to Bass. "you can play on the one, you can play off the one, it makes no difference when you're playing over a one drop, the one drop is the drum pattern"

I did do a board of Boss compact pedals, it was quite addictive tryting to get the colourful collection. The Boss compact hardware is really good and I found there are certain pedals that Boss do really well: Tuner, compressor, limiter, chorus, flanger, octaver, space echo, and the BB1-X. .....but then I wasn't such a fan of things like the AW-3, SY-1, GEB-7, ODB-3, there are better (often cheaper) alternatives . So once I started using some other pedals (e.g. MXR envelope filter instead of the AW-3, Sine FX parametric EQ instead of the GEB-7 ) the whole idea sort of went out of the window.

Although no one wishes they spent more time at work I do think many might think 'I wish I lived in a nicer place, had more holidays and saw more of the world, eat better meals, retired earlier, financially supported my kids better'... all of which unfortunately require £ which you usually get more of the more work is done. Don't get me wrong though, I'm no fan if spending time at work just for the sake of it. Work smarter not harder n'all that. But I do think it's an alright means to an end. I sort of figure 'fair enough', it is a balancing act.

I'm 'only' 46, but recently had my first proper health scare and these things tend to focus the mind on what to do with your life. I've come to the conclusion that everything is a balancing act and if it was completely 'live for the moment' I doubt the moments would could carry on being good and the living would probably get cut short! Many of the best things in life have to be worked at and have delayed gratification.... but just doing things in the moment for fun is also needed. With band stuff I did consider if it is actually worth my time and effort, the life balancing act means that is time I could spend with family, friends, fitness, career etc. My conclusion has been that it is worthwhile while it is fun and fulfilling as it isn't a £ earner to pay for other things in life. It doesn't always have to be the most fun ever though, sometimes it needs effort and pressure, highs and lows, bandmatres are humans and it is fine if they get moody every now and then - everyone needs to have a bit of slack. Likewise with things that initially seems very worthwhile e.g. Commit to 1hr of Piano a day, but really is it the best use of time/life? The delayed gratification of stuff like learning Piano is often worthwhile in the long-run and it is impressive that people have perservered with that long-term commitment but every time you see a great musician there is a real time cost and that time available is a finite thing. I have to say though, having mentally done this time audit, I don't think I'll ever look back and think 'I wish I watched more daytime telly alone', or 'I wish I spent more time on Basschat in my work from home hours' (sorry!). So I think both will get a bit of a cut-back. But again, it is a balancing act - just taking it easy, going easy on yourself and thinking 'that's enough effort for now' is often a good thing rather than constantly feeling like everything is strive and hussle.

"Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think. Enjoy yourself, while you're still in the pink. The years go by, as quickly as you wink. Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, it's later than you think"

I've put my Yamaha CK-61 and MPC Key 37 up for sale and bought a Kawei ES-60 as a 88 weighted key home piano (£295 Thomann sale). That'll hopefully leave me with about £700 towards getting a stage piano. Perhaps a Studiologic Numa X 73 (£849 from Scan) if I don't want to spend much extra, or something like Viscount Legend One 73 (£1,555) if I can save up and justify all that extra ££.

Although I love the MPC Key 37 I am going to put it up for sale as it doesn't quite fit with the things I need (home piano, stage piano, large midi keyboard for production). I am hoping I'm able to keep all of the licensed software though as I think there are some great sounds, I'm pretty sure that's fine as it is linked to my inMusic account rather than hardware and I already also have it all on the Laptop and you get 3x licenses. My plan is to get some sort of 73 key stage piano (f or live stuff. I've tried the Laptop + midi keyboard for live stuff before and it was a liability so I'm not going to do that again) and an 88 weighted key home piano (with speakers, simple, tough - to stay in the front room for the kids to learn on). And for home production the stage piano should work fine as a midi interface to still play the MPC plugin instruments via a Laptop. I've found that I actually usually have the Laptop hooked up to the MPC for production stuff as I prefer to do a lot of things like sample edits and Library management and sequencing via Laptop. I will definitely miss some of the MPC interface but it'll pay for the home piano and partly towards the stage piano.

In my view the green is the better colour (I owned one and it is a decent Bass), I guess most other people think the same so shops can sell the green ones for for more £.

Side note: I met Van once and he was friendly. Me and my Dad saw him in a park and my Dad said 'I've just been singing one of your songs' and Van said 'are you in a band' and my Dad's response was 'no, just singing it to myself' and there was a bit of a laugh and friendly small talk.

I think it was the first one out in 2025 so I'm not even gonna attempt 2026!

I think that a digital home piano for me and the kids to play at home is a different enough thing to a stage piano for band stuff that it is worth getting both: Home Piano: 88 weighted keys, good piano sounds, simple interface, built-in speakers, music stand, metronome, size/weight and portability isn't really an issue (in fact, being quite heavy/sturdy might be an advantage). Nothing too fancy needed as I don't want to be paranoid about it getting bashed about by kids. Kawai ES-60 looks a good option and I'll keep my eye out for similar second-hand things. Stage Piano: 73 keys semi-weighted (as I'll play organ and piano), decent piano and organ sounds - ideally with organ drawbars, relatively tough/light/transportable/fits in my small car and on small stages (hence 73 keys, but wanting a bit more than the 61 keys I currently have with a CK-61), roadworthy - so needs a certain level of toughness and the right connections. ...although saying that, a decent stage piano with some small monitor speakers set-up would I'm sure do fine as a home piano so I'll put-off getting a separate home piano for a while. I think I've narrowed the stage piano list down to: Viscount Legend One (£1,555). I really like the sound of this, the features, and the look - something very cool about it. Nord Electro 6D 73 (£1,919) ...although if I was to go for a Nord then I'll wait a while as version 3 = 2009, 4 = 2012, 5 = 2015, 6 = 2018. So an update is well overdue which would either make the older ones cheaper or the improvements in v7 might be worth waitng for. Handily as they are the two seemingly ticking the most of my stage piano boxes there is this comparison at 1hr4mins. This reviewer prefers the Viscount is better (and it's cheaper). My only reservation (beyond where will I get the ££ and what will my wife say!) is that the Nord is a bit more mainstream for holding value and ease of selling second-hand. And this quick review seems to prefer it to the Nord Electro: I do also like the look of: Roland Fantom 07 (possibly a bit big and over-complex and workstation-like for a live stage piano). Studiologic Numa X (no organ drawbars, but at only £850 it certainly saves me a few ££).

Semi-weighted is what I'm after from a stage Piano.

Yeah I think that compared to Bass Guitar gear it is more worthwhile having the specialist tool for the job with keyboards. My standard Bass guitar and equipment could cover any genre (apart from perhaps some niche exceptions like wanting a fretless sound, or a high C string), but you couldn't get a grand Piano to sound like a Minimoog or vice versa and all the nuance between a home piano/synth/stage piano/workstation keyboard mean that it could be worthwhile having them all.

I'm starting to have a slight change in plan. I currently have a Yamaha CK-61 for band stuff and it also sits in my front room for me and the kids to do piano playing.....now i think that something specifically designed as a home piano like the ES-60 is probably better for the home piano stuff (88 weighted keys, better speakers, a bit simpler interface, I wouldn't need to move it for rehearsals/gigs) and I'd also getting something like the Nord Electro 6 73 (or perhaps something cheaper) as a stage piano/organ/EP for playing with the band (better than the CK-61 for band stuff as it has the extra octave and is just generally better sound, keybed, and roadworthy build quality). I also have an MPC Key 37 for home production stuff, mostly I use it for sampling and drum loops and sequencing and then adding some simple keys ideas rather than seriously playing piano on its 3 octaves. Although I'm loving the MPC Key 37, I could actually sell it and do my home production stuff via Laptop software (keeping the MPC software synths etc) and controlling it via the new stage piano via midi. MPC Key 37 and the CK-61 would sell/part-ex for a total of roughly £1k. ES-60 and Nord Electro 6 73 (or similar) would cost roughly £2k. I've pretty much convinced myself that this £1k upgrade to home piano, stage piano, and home production/midi keyboard is probably worthwhile, we're talking things that should last 10 years and hold their value pretty well.