Bassassin

Lots of pics & info about JVs here: [url="http://www.21frets.com/"]http://www.21frets.com/[/url] It should be possible to work out what's original & what's not from the pics on the site. Lovely looking bass anyway. Jon.

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' post='368796' date='Jan 2 2009, 08:03 PM']I have a mate who has one of those - It's really not at all bad. Is the carved top sort of hollow sounding when you rap on it? His has gold hardware and an unfashionably brown figured finish. I thought the p/us were DiMarzio, but were rather microphonic. Jules[/quote] No it's not - 'cos it's a solid carved top, rather than the pressed ply archtops found on most 70s LP copies: Hardware on this is chrome & the pups (in chrome cases) are unbranded, so I think this just pre-dates the use of DiMarzios as standard. Apologies to the faint-hearted for the g*it*r pics. J.

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='368254' date='Jan 2 2009, 09:51 AM']Don't get me wrong Bassassin, I know how good some of the 80s Jap stuff was, especially makes like Burny, Ibanez and Greco (of which I have owned various guitars and basses) who did really good copies of the classic US guitars (in some cases better than the US). I know that these makes can command a relatively high price and in most cases are well worth it. However, there are some makes (Hondo being the prime example) which were utter gash back then, yet somehow people seem to think that now they are somehow great. If you're a collector, then fine, but if you're a player, then you can get much better quality instruments for the same price.[/quote] I wouldn't pay £650 - or even £400 - for a Rick copy. I'd be pushed to pay that for real one. However it's important to appreciate that quality isn't derived from a label - [i]ever[/i]. My £25 Hondo is a good-quality guitar, perhaps not "replica" standard but certainly the high-end of mid 70s JapCrap copies. I doubt I'll keep it, I'm not really a collector (junk-hoarder, maybe ) and I'd expect it to do quite well on Ebay - particularly to overseas bidders, with the current state of the quid. The brands you mention aren't makes at all in fact, just brands, and two of them, Greco & Burny, are predominantly Japanese home-market, where there's a much greater demand for "replica" level copies. In fact even Ibanez copies are pretty scarce in the UK - the market here was largely saturated with importer rebrands & the premium-priced Ibby copies were soundly undercut by often identical guitars on UK labels. Ibanez really started to penetrate the market here with their original designs from the late 70s onwards. I find it interesting to speculate that a lot of the instruments we dismissed as cheap unplayable trash back in the day (and I certainly did) were just poorly set-up & we didn't know any better. I have made a quid or two in the last few years by buying, scrubbing-up & selling on vintage JapCrap, and have found over & over again that all that's needed to make most of them playable is a bit of basic tweaking. Obviously there are exceptions, but you'll tend to find decent fret jobs & OK-quality hardware on most. It's incredibly common to find a dusty, rusty old guitar with zero fretwear - because the setup out of the box was dire, and it's been in the loft or the back of a cupboard for 30 years. It's not for me to say why people pay what they do for old instruments - some of which are unarguably poor quality - although I think many of them are buying a myth (and the prevailing Ebay myth is that every old Japanese guitar's an Ibanez - and Hondo were Japanese, so therefore - an Ibanez! ) and presumably many also consider them to be an investment. And considering the prices of these two old Rick copies - they might have a point. Jon.

[quote name='fretmeister' post='368504' date='Jan 2 2009, 02:52 PM']I'm not sure whether to be really impressed with that knowledge.... or really appalled!!! [/quote] It's a curse and a burden, knowing about things. Be thankful that loonies like me are rare, and we live in a lovely world run by people who know f@ck-all about anything and because of that, everything's great for everyone! J.

[quote name='Rowbee' post='368382' date='Jan 2 2009, 12:29 PM']Nothing wrong with what he was doing in my opinion. I don't think dancing around like Flea would have enhanced the performance.[/quote] Point. Duffy's band spent their time twitching about & posturing & looked a right shower of cocks as a result, playing such pedestrian music. J.

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='368145' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:25 PM']I think with the "Made In Japan" plate on the back it was made in the Matsumoko Factory in Japan. This is where the Westones and Aria guitars were made as well as Greco. Could well be an early Greco model.[/quote] How the living arse did I miss this one? Sorry WHUFC, that's not a Mat. They never used this style of neckplate. Also to continue hair-splitting, they only made [i]some[/i] Grecos - Fujigen Gakki made around half of the early 70s, and the majority of late 70s & early 80s Grecos. Since it's only a brand name, like most Jap "makes", other factories built them too, and as such if it doesn't say "Greco", it [b]can't[/b] be one. It's also not a Kay, by any stretch of the imagination. First of all, it doesn't say "Kay" on it - after it stopped being a US made brand, Kay became just a label, and they've been made all over the world, from Taiwan to Korea to the old East Germany. Funnily, I've never seen a Japanese one, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Anyway, the sandwich-bodied KB24 was early 70s Taiwanese, later ply ones were probably Korean. So anyway, there are two clues to the origin of this bass. Clue one is the neckplate - this style, with the MIJ stamp on the lower half, appears on all confirmed pre-serial Fujigen instruments. Not all post '75 Fujigens were serialised so these plates were used on later instruments too. Serialised Fujigens have a date-decodable SN stamped in the middle of the plate. Several other manufacturers occasionally used this type of plate, including Chushin Gakki & Moridaira, probably because hardware like this was ordered in from outside suppliers and batches would doubtless vary. Clue no. 2 is the serial sticker, which is quite a lot like this: [attachment=17967:serialsticker.jpg] Which is on a Moridaira-built Hohner which I bought new in 1983 - my first grown-up g*it*r. I've seen these on other Moridairas, they appear to be sequential, so I'm 99.9% confident that this bass is a Mori, and built a little while before my old plank. Mine was old stock when I got it so was probably made in 1981/82, this bass is about 48,000 units younger than mine, presuming the numbering's sequential. It's really anyone's guess what that means, I really have no idea what the factory's output would have been. So Moridaira's not exactly the best-known Japanese manufacturer - in reality they were an acoustic builder who jumped on the copy bandwagon in the 70s. They generally seem to be medium/good quality - well-made but with a few corners cut here & there. As well as building MIJ Hohners they're known to have made some of the CMI-branded copies from the early/mid 70s, Lotus in the US, and also their own Morris house-brand. The electrics seemed to disappear in the 80s. They're still around now, like many surviving Japanese companies from the 70s largely involved in importing & distribution, but still have their Morris brand acoustics, some of which are still made in-house. Jon.

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='368131' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:09 PM']as far as I remember from the 80s all Hondo stuff was pony. I remember their strats appearing in the Freemans catalogue. The Hondos I played in the 80s were always crap - don't know why there is so much interest in them now. Once a crap bass, always a crap bass in my opinion.[/quote] Specifically the interest in this has been because it's a Rick copy - it's well-documented elsewhere how rare these are, and people will pay insane money for them. Considering a Japanese-made El Maya copy just sold for over £650, then maybe £400 for what's the low end of these isn't unrealistic. There's also a growing interest in 70s copy era stuff in general - it's becoming increasingly rare, and there's an appreciation of the quality of the higher end MIJ stuff, all of which pushes up prices in general. Most Hondos were utter junk - cheap Korean-made plywood beginner instruments, most of which will have ended up flung in a skip years ago. However there were better-quality Japanese-made versions - it seems that Hondo attempted to up their game in the late 70s/early 80s & started having guitars built by Matsumoku & Tokai. They used better-quality hardware too, & DiMarzio pups were fitted as standard. These were sold alongside the Samick-built Korean cheapies, but because of the brand reputation the "premium" models never really took off. This makes them very uncommon - and leads to the likes of me finding a rather lovely set-neck, carved top Hondo LP copy languishing at my local car boot, for £25. J.

Suggestions for MkII - full-width vintage style inlays & checked binding, but to make it more individual & less Rickenbacker, a maple fingerboard & bound headstock. And how about using a Hipshot bridge - proper intonation & string height/spacing, plus no chance of tail-lift. Natural finish would be lovely. J.

Largely pretty horrid, I have to say. There was a massive aura of smug fakeness about the whole thing - probably mostly because it's a sleb knees-up recorded in October (or some similarly unseasonal time) with all the "guests" blatantly only there for the free booze & exposure. Ugh. The acts were what you'd expect I suppose - those post-Winehouse plastic, soul-free, talent show pub singers (Adele, Duffy) which [i]Later[/i] seems to love, "heritage" acts - Annie Lennox still the same old strident, gurning foghorn, & probably Dave Edmunds' first TV appearance since 1978 - was it a choice between Jools & the "who the f@ck's that?" slot on [i]Buzzcocks[/i]? At least Martha Reeves had some classic & timeless material, even if she's not what she once was. Kelly Jones' rendition of [i]My Girl[/i] was very good - nice to hear he's capable of more than grating Rod Stewart impressions! I quite liked the Ting Tings - although I can't help feeling that bands like them succeed in using technology to complicate the performance of essentialy simplistic music. Get a bassist! Hold Steady were good but a bit limp compared to last time they were on Jools. I got the impression that Duffy's band were a bunch of session guys who'd been told to play like they were "really into it". Perhaps that explains their somewhat incongruous twitching & posturing. On balance, a poor show that felt like it dragged on for years, the highlight really was some lovely musicianship from Jools' band. Jon.

[quote]Start/finish my Project Jazz - I've had all the parts for over a year. [/quote] Errr.... [quote]De-fret my Peavey 5 - I don't play it, don't want to sell it so making it a lined (& therefore playable by me) fretless should help justify its existence.[/quote] Errr.... x2 [quote]Build headless twin-neck fretted 4/fretless 5 prog nightmare bass.[/quote] Oh, come [i]on[/i]... [quote]Set up workshop in basement in order to do all of the above.[/quote] Did this bit. But none of the above. [quote]Flog my owned-since-new (1992) , as-new, never-gigged & never-going-to-be-gigged-by-me Ibanez SR800 fretless (unlined!) - it deserves better![/quote] Did this - it's now owned by the lovely Mr David Nimrod of this parish. [quote]Set up recording studio/permanent rehearsal space in other half of basement.[/quote] Objective achieved, Captain. [quote]Demo two songs which are written but not recorded - one of which is already over 2 years old.[/quote] Sort of - neither of the songs ended up as they were started, but there's no longer a backlog of unfinished material. [quote]Record two albums with band - the "back catalogue" material & the as-yet only half-written Concept Album. And try & find a label gullible enough to release them.[/quote] Partly - recording the old stuff got postponed after the new material took precedence. There are still a few little bits & pieces finish up, but [i]The Fifth Sun[/i] (which is indeed a concept piece) is pretty much finished, including artwork. Whee. [quote]Start to collate mass of useless info about JapCrap basses & guitars for future website (Rickenbugger.com ) or book which no-one will ever, ever publish.[/quote] GTFO. [quote]Play more gigs outside the UK.[/quote] A few [u]inside[/u] the UK would have been nice. However for 2009 we have a festival date in Slovakia provisionally booked & will hopefully be playing a short tour around that date, both there & in the Czech Republic. So not bad, on balance - I think this year I might try & finish off last year's (with the possible exception of the twin neck - but you never know) and probably just buy more JapCrap... J.

Thanks for the advice, I think I'll try it next time I'm refinishing a body. I'll avoid it for the fretless fingerboard - I was only wondering if it would be a (potentially) easier alternative to epoxy. J.

It's a bit like someone went "I really, really want a WishBass, but I'm damned if I'm paying those crazy prices!" Jon.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='366419' date='Dec 30 2008, 05:24 PM']Well that Elmayer has now kicked off big time. Over £600 and counting ...[/quote] Six hundred and fifty-six pounds. [b]SIX HUNDRED AND FIFTY SIX F@CKING POUNDS!!!![/b] That is an all-time record for a Rickenbacker copy. *faints* J.

I read the TB thread - it was funny to see the "encouragement" you were getting to go for a greenburst finish. Wonder if any of them knew those crazy Japanese did it first? [attachment=17843:vorgbassresize.jpg] What's the Rustins like to use? I'm thinking about trying that for a maple neck/board refin & possibly on a fretless fingerboard. Any advice/opinions? J.

[quote name='Lemuel Beam' post='365706' date='Dec 29 2008, 07:32 PM']Identical to my first bass, bought in '78 for £90.00. An absolute heap of sh*t.[/quote] Just think, if you'd hung on to it you could have punted it for £400, like he just did for that. Despite not getting his original £600, I think that's a record for Korean plywood garbage. Recession? What recession? J.

I'll do the best my unskilled bodging permits! Very pleased with how well the original hardware (apart from the tailpiece - I just [i]couldn't[/i] use that!) came back, the tuners look nearly new. Just checked out your 4003 build. Bloody hell! J.

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='362827' date='Dec 24 2008, 02:28 PM']Thanks to everyone for taking such an interest in this thread and for all the great feedback.[/quote] I didn't even clock your build thread until you posted on my JapCrap restoration one. That is an outrageously stunning piece of work - How long did it take you? The initial readthrough gave me the impression you'd knocked it up over Christmas - although clearly that's not what happened! Did you leave the back/neck natural & just go for a black top? Going off to check out the TB thread now! Jon.

[b]*End-Of-Year Update*[/b] Which is that having salvaged some parts from a tragically butchered 'Faker, I have put this back together, and it looks laaarvly! But. There's always a downside. Unfortunately, this one suffers from the scourge of earlyish neck-through JapCrap, which is Unadjustably High Action Syndrome. Gah. It is playable as it is, and there are a couple of things I can do to make it a little better, but I do like a low string-height & I doubt that this will ever be as playable as I would like. What I can do is to first lower the nut slots - these are really very high and serve to nearly double the effect of an overly high bridge. Secondly I can take the base of the bridge unit down by about 1.5mm, and lastly attack the saddles with a file. The problem will be that I'm then limited in how low I can have the string height by the rest of the hardware - the strings will be hitting the pickup ring and the bottoms of the channels the mute sits in. The other thing that occurs to me is that I'm using a genuine Rick tailpiece here - it may be that the casting's deeper/differently proportioned and that a proper JapCrap one will work better. Anyway I'll try & take a few pics soon, before I start hacking stuff up. I'm sure you'll agree it'll look great on the wall... J.

Send 'em back & buy a pair of Carillon AM-05s, similar spec & currently being practically given away for £50 a pair in the [url="http://www.reverb-store.co.uk/product-detail.asp?prod=194"]Reverb sale[/url]. I got a pair of these at Music Live (£60 then) to use with my desktop PC and have been blown away by them. I have a pair of Spirit Absolute 2s for my studio setup & the Carillons are easily as good, if not better. Jon.

Samick's originally Korean and one of the biggest musical instrument manufacturers in the world. Guitars made there have been common in the UK for best part of 40 years - Samick made the vast majority of Hondo guitars from the late 60s onwards. Not a fantastic recommendation, but they've long since transcended their cheapo plywood origins. As Essential Tension said, they made many MIK Squiers, and the bulk of Korean Epiphones up until 2002, when Samick moved guitar production to Indonesia. It's probably a decent-enough budget spec bass, but £199 seems quite dear for a probably second-hand no-particular-brand MM copy. And if it's the same as [url="http://norwich.gumtree.com/norwich/70/28299870.html"]this one[/url], it definitely is. Jon.