SpondonBassed

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1500102593' post='3335586'] Ah yes. Rhythm stick isn't a personal goal, it's a requirement for the dep gig! Help! [/quote] I understand your anxiety. Especially when you say a band should have most pop tunes up and running in 15 to 20 minutes or so... Break legs my friend, it's a worthy challenge, that tune.

[quote name='dudewheresmybass' timestamp='1500019363' post='3335122'] The vast majority of my work is cash in hand. I declare all of it- so it is all liable to tax. Paying cash in hand doesn't mean that it exists outside of the standard system, it just relies on the honesty of the person receiving it [/quote] It needed saying. Thanks for standing up for those of us who believe in paying our way in life. Tax avoidance is a separate issue.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1500041779' post='3335318'] ...We also talk about developing big ears. [/quote] [attachment=249090:BigEars.png] I resemble that remark! [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1500041779' post='3335318'] That's listening to lots of different types of music and being able to hear where tunes are going. I.e. Knowing what and where the chord changes are going to be. There are people who are open to music and new ideas and there are people who have very closed minds. Really what I'm saying is that Pro's and more experienced musicians have a massive tool kit and make it look easy, and to some extent it does become extremely easy. There is still the occasional tune that requires a lot of work. Hit me with your Rhythm stick is a tune I have to learn. I've always shied away from learning it. I'm expecting it to take a while (maybe an hour or two?) to transpose and get the right feel. But now I have reason and an excuse to learn it. That's one reason why changing bands often is quite an important driver for me. [/quote] You are right. I had a very limited selection of music that I wanted to play until I started to be less self indulgent in what I listened to. I started to broaden my taste as a consequence just by getting out of a rut of my own making. Rhythm Stick? I know it. I can crawl through it with a degree of accuracy and sometimes feeling but I can't yet nail it. I like to have a good old go at it at it for exercise and then leave it for a while. Every time I come back to it it seems to benefit from the interval where I play anything [i]but[/i] Rhythm Stick. I'll never be another Norman Watt Roy but I will get topside of that tune one day. It's good to have goals. Oh, and by the way, I actually do resemble Big Ears these days. When I copied the image above I realised that I was the butt of that quip more than anyone else. [quote name='blue' timestamp='1500072111' post='3335522'] I'm lucky that I'm gigging every weekend. However, the thing with experience is, what type of experience. I just wish my experience was more diverse. It's like how many times can you read the same book. I know, I'm lucky I have gigs. I was looking at Bass Players Wanted on Millwaukee Rocks last night. The page was empty, not one ad had been placed. Blue [/quote] Next opportunity you get, book a busman's holiday for a fortnight playing Open Mic nights and jams over here my friend. That'll be different enough for you. It may help you with your perspective on things. Seriously. It'd be a good old laugh if nothing else. I'd even lend you a guitar and combo if you wanted. There must be other multi instrumentalist members in the East Midlands who'd get involved in a pop-up band for the duration...? As I only play bass, I'd be happy to roadie and be involved as required elsewhere like BVs or something. Just an idea.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499988802' post='3335044'] ...Seriously, am I the only bass chatter that us in this for the money. And why does it seem like not being in it for the money is some sort of badge of honor? Blue [/quote] I have only been here for a little over a year but I think you are perhaps the only BCer who likes to bring up the fact that you are in it for the money quite so much. There are many more here who don't feel they have to. I am still wondering why you felt your band should not be doing gigs like the support spot for Frampton at your last festival. I mean, you said; [i]"No boost of any kind. I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we should be playing those types if gigs." (sic)[/i] Do you think the punters noticed? I am puzzled by the statement because I'd have thought, even for a one off, it's a feather in your cap as a bassist. I can understand if you feel your band should be headlining. That's natural ambition. Otherwise I fail to see why you said what you said unless it is that you don't like playing festivals and you only happened to mention it after playing the last one...? Treat this as rhetoric if you want. I wont probe any further as this is clearly a personal issue you have about the gig.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499988529' post='3335043'] ...It will be tough for young guys in bands with guys that have the ability but are just plain lazy. I'm sure a few of you have been through that. Very frustrating. Blue [/quote] I am not claiming to be a young man but I have had that very experience in the last couple of years for myself. I had a session with a guitar playing keyboardist who sang. We jammed in his kitchen and he insisted on me piggybacking on his Fender combo because it had a larger cone than my combo! He started to patronise me a bit when I offered resistance to the notion and I let it slide but he said a few more things that made me think [i]he's capable of better than what I'm hearing[/i]. I managed not to loose my temper with him but my patience ran out after about 45 minutes of pure bull-feathers and fluff about how great his MIDI skills are. Prat. I hope he finds success on his own level though. He wasn't a nasty person, just a bit half-ars3d.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500079543' post='3335550'] YouTube, query any bass study you want. Even Scott's Bass Playing has some free tutorials for beginners. And you can use Your be clips as a metronome. Just enter whatever bpm you want to play along to. Blue [/quote] That facility had escaped my attention. Thanks for the heads up Blue. I save clips locally [i]then[/i] adjust the speed when I need to but it is useful to know that you can time warp a YT stream without a pitch change. I'll look into that a bit more for myself because it isn't (legally) possible to save some YT clips.

Cheers Andy. Support for the Blockheads eh? Good one. I bought the Ibby tribute kit this morning. I am waiting for shipping notification and a possible further import charge. Of the two guitar body styles it seems to lend itself best to my notions of what I might end up with. The neck has to be modified though to get a workable 35 inch scale. I would think that the fretboard has to come off and be replaced with a fretless or one fretted for the new scale. My cataracts are making things difficult so during the process I will attempt to put fibre optic side dots in so's I can see them in difficult or zero light. I want to have a side dot for each fret position with the 5, 7, 9, 12, 15 etc in a different colour. The intensity should be variable and, if I can hack it, self adjusting according to ambient light conditions. There is no need for front markers. I will use this topic as a sounding board for my ideas as they develop or as you put it - a sanity check. I am liking the progress on Mick's build. A nice collection of innovative ideas there. I am impressed by you both.

Assuming kit builds are okay for this forum I'd like to ask if anyone has done any of the kits from the nice gentlemen at Pit Bull Guitars? I am seriously considering one of these; https://www.pitbullg...ass-guitar-kit/ or these; https://www.pitbullg...ass-guitar-kit/ PBG have upgrade options for all of the hardware but I think I'd like to try a few of my own ideas. Chiefly, I'd like to make this a 35in scale so the neck might be surplus to requirements unless I get a fretless. Then I suppose I could fret it for a 35 later if I wanted to. I've seen YT clips of their stuff being built and reviewed so I am quite happy that this is the standard of kit that I want to start out on. I'd hope to work up to a guitar that has what I want without the extras by doing a few kits in succession. It ain't gonna be pretty folks, I'll warn you of that now. Edit; I've settled on the Ibby type build now.

[quote name='mac1012' timestamp='1499965700' post='3334891'] ...What is the general consensus for a beginner is it the standard scale pattern i leant on the guitar for the C scale or is the fretted note pattern more advisable ? i know its prob both but wondered what would be best for a beginner. Or any other bokks that may be suitable for a beginner. Thanks Mark [/quote] Welcome back! Careful now... you might be over thinking it at this early stage. Where you play your scale on the neck can vary according to a few things not least of which is the reach between the fingers of your fretting hand. There are a few positions along the neck where you can play exactly the same scale in exactly the same octave. More choices pop up if you add a fifth string above or below. Your reach will improve, trust me, but until it does there is little point in worrying about whether scales include open strings or not. Go for the comfortable ones at first position where you have the widest fret intervals and gradually challenge yourself with the more difficult ones. Search for stretching exercises for your fretting fingers too. Unless you already have fingers like tarantula legs you are sure to benefit. I am sorry that I can't recommend any specific publications but I strongly suggest that you do not settle for just one. Opinions vary. Abilities vary. These days hardware is so much more advanced that new rules are being written all of the time. Cherry pick, if you will, from the fruits of experienced players who share stuff for free on YT Above all, ENJOY your journey into the land of low. Constantly reaching for your bottom end needn't be a questionable pursuit. [attachment=249013:Tarantula.png] [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/9974215/Tarantula-the-size-of-a-dinner-plate-discovered-in-Sri-Lanka.html"]http://www.telegraph...-Sri-Lanka.html[/url]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1499968500' post='3334910'] Exactly what I was saying. We are not all pro musicians but we can still have a professional attitude to playing, be it down the local pub or at a stadium gig. You give your best, If your best is only pretty good, but entertaining, then you have not taken the attitude that "The punters wont notice". Why do some find it difficult to grasp what I am saying? [/quote] Pardon? Heeheehee

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1499946813' post='3334708'] ... [url="http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/media/Just%20Stuff/Music%20and%20Musicians/post-25599-0-34843200-1381005057_th_zpsc004aaac.jpg.html"][/url] [/quote] Hahahahaha.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1499937839' post='3334603'] mistakes can be part of the show, if you handle it right the crowd find it amusing, once in a while anyway [/quote] I'm with you on that one. It is no bad thing to let the audience know that you are only human just like them, as you say, "once in a while".

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499933240' post='3334542'] It's a "I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we she be playing those kind of gigs" Blue [/quote] Sorry Blue, I was asking why you said "I don't think we should be playing those types if gigs" [size=1](sic)[/size]. It must be way past your bedtime. Catch you later when you've had some beauty sleep.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499929952' post='3334524'] 1. It's merely a YouTube clip giving me a click at 140bpm. I'm not distracted and I'm not looking at a screen. And tutorials are not for everyone 2. No boost of any kind. I didn't think we were very good. As a matter of fact I don't think we should be playing those types if gigs. Blue [/quote] Yes. I just use an urban elf. Sorry, that should have read [i]metro gnome[/i]. I'm surprised by your second response. Why do you say that? Is it just self criticism or were comments made?

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1499924642' post='3334495'] Learn Herbie Flowers' bassline to Space Odditty to wow the punters, except nobody notices the bass player [/quote] I really should have read more sleeve notes growing up. Thanks for that nugget of gen.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1499926190' post='3334503'] Lescherions stated it would be nice if the government looked at Google and Amazon first, a few posters also expressed the same sentiment. I'm just saying they did and changed the law which changed the behaviour of the large corporations. I'm not sure an expensive lawyer makes a lot of difference. Ultimately it would be down to a jury to decide what was reasonable. [/quote] With corporate entities of that size I'd say that public opinion is more likely to dictate that than a formal jury. That's just an opinion based on what we've already seen. Reason? No. Just commerce. That is all.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1499924176' post='3334491'] I'm not sure I understand the view that the only people that will notice are probably musicians anyway, so it doesn't matter. Surely they are the people we aim to impress, aren't they? [/quote] I see your point but I do not subscribe to an us and them concept so much. It's a black and white view of things and I paid for a colour licence. When successful working musicians are earning what bands do they choose to see for themselves in their time off? I suppose it must be like the old busman's holiday sometimes - difficult to appreciate because you do for a living what most others do for leisure.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1499908530' post='3334478'] People [i]do[/i] notice, if you make them. Tonight's gig was a blues rock trio and the drummer and me got a lot of handshakes for being a "great" rhythm section. We made people notice. Even if an audience doesn't cotton on, the band will know. The very least you have to do is make the band glad you're playing with them and not someone else. Most of my gigs in the last 30 years have come from band leaders seeing me play so there's another great reason to always put 100% effort into every note you play on stage. [/quote] That's the sort of [i]take charge[/i] attitude that I like. When you commit like that, even your mistakes become more musical.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499909202' post='3334479'] Granted, I answer to no one, my time is my in. I play when ever I feel like it. [/quote] Then you and I are the lucky ones. Time is a rare commodity for most. For those with young families, forget it. Your time will not be your own ever again. Unless you have a job in a timber merchant's where you can use their wood shed during lunch break talking about the merits of woodshed is a moot point! My time was not my own due to old family responsibilities until recently. Now I have no one to answer to. It is all down to me. No longer can I avoid exercise, practice and extending my repertoire with the excuse that someone else's priorities are restraining me. If I'm honest, it's scary but at least it is [i]real[/i]. [quote name='blue' timestamp='1499909202' post='3334479'] I don't practice with an amp. I pick up a bass and use my phone to learn songs, partake in a tutorial or just practice scale application s using my phone as a metronome. Blue [/quote] I think I must have a tendency towards claustrophobia because I find it a struggle to practice with 'phones or looking at stuff on tiny screens made for children and the wee folk in general. I am fortunate to have alternatives. Just as an aside; Did your festival spot as support for Frampton boost your personal ambition? You seem to have refocussed somewhat.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499891877' post='3334404'] ...Sometime I think "woodshedding" is a disipline of the past. Blue [/quote] l take personal issue with that statement simply because I am unable to do other than woodshed at the moment. Maybe because I am such a late "born again" returnee to the band thing or maybe because of any one of many things I keep getting false starts but I have to make use of the idle time by going back in my shed, as it were, else I'll stagnate. When idle (no gigs played or booked for, say, six months) It's got to be the same for those with better ability than mine... maybe more so. By the way, I have a modest but comfortable woodshed, relatively speaking as it is really a double glazed workshop. Not everyone lives with access to one. I read about bassists living in flats, apartments, tenements and the like who will never have the luxury of a family free space where you can play amplified and not be a nuisance to neighbours. I have no fear of carrying on, playing for my own pleasure, if it comes to it but I'd miss out on the ensemble stuff and I [i]miss[/i] that. There is only so much you can practice on your own unless you are one of those driven individuals that I can always admire but never quite relate to.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1499886624' post='3334357'] We will often see comments here on bass chat pushing the idea that punters don't notice the flaws in our shows. I recently saw 2 pro level shows, Ann Wilson from Heart & Peter Frampton. Both shows were outstanding. Production and the caliber of musicianship was outstanding. Do you think they got to that level of performance with a "punters can't tell the difference" attitude? My point, none of us should use this "punters can't tell the difference" as an excuse for "shoddy" performances. Blue [/quote] It's a bit like butter and margarine. For some people or punters as you put it, nothing short of virtuosity is worth paying to attend. They'll listen, criticise then move on looking for what they perceive to be [i]the real thing[/i]. Others are merely looking for a social lubricant in the form of live music. They take what's dished out and consume it with passion. I'd say they're an inspiration to any musician starting out, frankly. There is a thriving market for both sorts of bands fortunately. It's a small point but I think the word punter implies the sort of consumer who takes a gamble that the entertainment will be good enough to keep them happy. That would only be a small slice out of the live music consumer pie. I believe that the major group of these consumers will have an idea of what they are about to see when they go to a venue. As regards entertainment a night out is nothing like a gamble for them. I know from your descriptions that this is not how it's done so much in your neck of the woods however.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1499855755' post='3334049'] It's just meant to be a bit of fun to see out of those six songs which people would prefer given the choice. WEBFF isn't one of them this time around, but nothing is off limits, with the exception of The Laughing Gnome Actually, after this morning's band conversation, I don't think we will be doing She's Got Medals anytime soon either. Sorry Andy_L I'll have a word with our keys player. He's a music teacher and he's all MIDI'd up, so I'm sure it would be do-able. [/quote] Hahahaha, "She's Got Medals". Another dodgy one would be the Little Bombardier I'd imagine. That one's a bit difficult to listen to post Savile. How on earth would you perform that to an audience in good conscience these days I wonder? Cheers chap. I listened to the early B side release of WEBFF after my last post here and I liked it a lot. There was, I think, a cello accompaniment, possibly an oboe too. Now I am not sure which of those two versions I'd favour. I doubt either version would serve in your set very well though but thanks for asking on my behalf.

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1499854276' post='3334037'] There's something great about getting paid in readies at the end of the night after a pub gig... [/quote] It's the same where ever there are people who put something of themselves into their work mate. I started out working in engineering. I remember the loss of incentive to get out of bed for work that occurred within me years ago because the pay packet was eliminated for "good". It started when we went from weekly pay packets to hybrid (fixed cash sum with the remainder on a cheque) weekly pay packets. It forced us workers into a closer relationship with banks that, for the time, just wasn't normal. We still collected our pay by queueing at the Pay Window by the Time Office. For lots of works this was a weekly routine and quite a social one. It seems not to exist any more except perhaps in the smaller firms. Even then I can't imagine that there are many legitimate companies giving out pay packets any more. What is not understood by today's generations is the social aspect of that tradition and especially the consequence of it's eventual demise. When that and in-house catering were eradicated wholesale from the workplace there weren't the same opportunities to be sociable with your workmates other than in your own time outside of working hours. I lost interest in work altogether however when we were converted to the soulless bank automated transfer every fortnight. Soon after monthly pay was fully imposed. The unions had said that it was an inevitability and they were right. You can justify it as much as you like but [i]getting paid[/i] is almost as rewarding as the cash value in the act of handing over the money. Receiving money at your account is not. Musicians are in one of a small group of occupations that still get cash in hand with no suggestion of illegal activity, tax evasion or hiding income in some way. Looks like it won't last forever sadly. Bah.

That'll be it. Ta.

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1499850020' post='3334001'] I'm sure this was originally titled "end of cash in hand jobs" - I read it very briefly before it refreshed [/quote] I can really [i]feel[/i] your disillusionment.