Pirellithecat

Bigger "performance area" than usual on Saturday. Changes made One monitor (rather than up to 3) IEM's for me and drummer Better Mic/monitor positioning Mic sensitivities done pre gig Monitoring set up after FOH volume. New guitar cab - portrait angled top vs on floor to ankle. IEM's for me and drummer Increased FOH speaker vol/reduced mixer gain. Sneaked a bit of guitars into front of house instead of cranking volume ....... Results No feedback! Still very loud out front Loud but not painful on stage IEM's not very successful in consistently getting right mix (any mix for me). Needs work if we are going to continue to uses them for drummer. Even without any actual mix (tech issues?) IEM's good in term of noise reduction but being able to hear. For drummer we will need to add overhead Mic(s) to capture all drums in IEM mix. Drummer could sing without feed back - great benefit. So, either a benign venue or the changes are having an effect! We went down a storm so just for fun, here's the band in action!!

Hmm - I wonder what the common-or-garden-pub-gigging-band's budget is? Am I right in thinking this is around £1400? Might be a compelling argument for going digital? I must become more brave ...........

Bloody hell - and I'm worrying about too complex! How long does it usually take to get set up and sound check? I guess with experience (and less back line) it gets easier/quicker? I ask because at our upcoming gig we follow a band who nominally finish at 8pm. No shared gear so they have to clear away before we can make a start setting up (PA, Drums, Monitors, Backline, Sound Check) and be ready to start at 9pm. If they have an encore - we're stuffed! In preparation I shall watching replays of Formula 1 Pit Stops! Thanks for the detail though - very useful!

Yep - had it all apart last night and the tone pot is OK. It works in so far as it increases "muffledness" when rotated anticlockwise!! But good thought.

I suspect that you might be right! However, when I listen to other players using P Basses I don't notice the "muffledness" but that could very well be that, from the audience point of view, everything sounds the same😂 I really should try an alternative , but it has to be at home, as in shops I find it difficult to really judge the sound as I'm usually hijacked by the action/playability and my ears seem to have a "shop filter" . But that would be the definitive QC check!

Pickup Height - well.... I've just checked that and it might be a tad too low .... so I've taken everything apart, put new "foam" under the pickups and re-assembled. Not sure it sounds any different, but I'll reserve judgement until I take it to rehearsal on Wednesday. I've actually also reduced the relief on the neck and adjusted string height and intonation - certainly this makes it a little better to play but I'll leave it overnight and check it all tomorrow once everything has settled down a tad. It does play really nicely, and the 40mm neck is great and it might be that I'm expecting too much tonal variation from an "old" P bass. On the Cobalt front, I've tried these in the past and find the D'addario NYXL's brighter ... I currently have GHS Bass Boomers on it just to experiment, but these don't really improve things over the NYXL's. But good thought. I'll report back after rehearsals.

Yep - reduce sound levels first then think about different/more monitor mixes 👍 I can (have) used the EQ controls on the Monitors. Basically rolled off the bass and fiddled with the Mids/Treble to get meaningful info out of the monitors without feedback (as far as I can with the Laney anyway!!). Cheers everyone - 4 rehearsals and 4 gigs in the next 4 weeks so I'll see how I get on and report back.

That's interesting. If I'm successful in reducing our stage volume, won't the Drummer find it (even more) difficult to hear the guitars and bass especially if he uses IEM's? Whilst i wasn't thinking of putting the guitars, drums and bass through the Vocal monitors, my trials with IEM's, so far, indicate I need vocals, guitars, bass (.... and might even be tempted with a little drum to improve the "lock-in" between bass and drums) via my monitor feed. Am I missing something?

🤣 Great! ...... so that'd be 4 monitor feeds (Bass, Drums, 2 Vocals) ... and we've recently replaced our mixer with a nice new shiny Mackie 16ProFX ........ with 3 Aux Sends!!!! 😳Doh! But you are right. I'll start trying to sell all my "spare" gear (and maybe a kidney) to fund a 4 Aux send mixer - any suggestions!! What were you using on Saturday - great sound with several monitor feeds and not enormous in terms of "footprint". Great crowd response too - how did Sunday go?

Thanks - I'm trying to use Xvive U4 currently - bit of a learning curve but fingers crossed it'll help. Yep, I've tried EQing the monitors and it certainly helps, but to get to the required volume they are still prone to feedback. Clearly if we can manage the volume we'll help with the feedback. Concerning the choice of an analogue desk, in hindsight this was a mistake. I was worried about the learning curve/complexity, the reliability of the connection and the ability to reach over mid song and deal with issues whilst playing, but I probably should have bitten the bullet. Any thought on the idea of doubling up the monitors so that we replace one large one with two more compact ones so that each vocalist can get the level they need rather than the higher level they need when sharing? Does the ability to position each monitor closer to the relevant person's ears and in better alignment with the Null area of their Mic outweigh the fact that there might be more sound overall from the sum of the sounds of having 2 Monitors rather than 1? VSmith1 of this Parish has very kindly just leant me the reference book mentioned above, together with another tomb, so I'll have a look at those over the next few days and see if I can find Nirvana! Much obliged!! Thanks all!

I do need to work on the positioning of the band members/monitors on the stage - that's a very good point. Might require a bit more "negotiation though ....... We currently use a single monitor shared between the vocalist and the guitar player who also sings. If we "split up" the vocalist and guitar player I suspect we would need another monitor. I'm wondering whether that might actually be a good idea anyway, as each individual monitor would have to cover a smaller space and consequently be able to be quieter. Each monitor would also be more able to be positioned in the Null Zone of each Mic. One is an SM58, the other an SM58Beta. In the rehearsal space the bass cab is not near a wall - it's centrally placed in the room, at least 2meters away from the nearest wall. I'm trying to measure the volume of overall sound pressure waves reaching my ears rather than the bass volume. The (doubtless approximate) sound-meter app seems to suggest that we are a tad loud and that it's not just my perception or aged ears. I've re-read the info on SM58 placement relative to a monitor and we're pretty much in line with that, except the wall behind the vocalist in the rehearsal space. So next steps are - use 2, different monitors - away from the reflective wall and in the null zones of the mics. If this helps, negotiate the position of the band members on stage. (This would also be really helpful as it would move me away from the Crash Cymbal!.)

Thanks Phil, Progress I think. Taken at above/behind the bass rig (a bit further away from everything than my ears), and using Backline plus 2 Vocal Monitors, NO MAIN PA Speakers. Peak levels at rehearsal (accepting all caveats) were 115dB. This at 3metres from Drums, Guitars, and 2 meters from monitors. Most songs in the 107 - 112 range with peaks at 115. This was using Backline and 2 vocal monitors Didn't tell the band until the end. They were shocked, We agreed to monitor it some more and try to reduce levels. 115dB's at the topography of the rehearsal space suggests that the levels for someone playing (drummer) or standing on top of the Crash Cymbal (me) will be exposed to levels significantly higher than 115 - I'll measure at next gig. The drummer tried IEMs again and once his drums are Miked up - he might be OK with using them - he still feels isolated from his drums etc .... but work in progress. I'm still trying IEM's, but find that, I can't really tell what the bass actually sounds like "out front" so without a "Sound guy" that makes live a bit tricky - but I'll see how this evolves. One remaining issue is that the main vocal monitor, in front of the Vocalist, seems excessively prone to feed back. At volumes she can hear herself properly it feeds back erratically. Shure SM58 Mic, Laney CPX12 Monitor. could be reflections from wall immediately behind her, rehearsal set-up positioning, horrid monitor - or useless bloke on mixer (me)! All in all though a step in the right direction Thanks everyone for continuing input.

Very interesting ...... whether dB's are relevant or not I'm with the band tonight so I'll see what output my cab is (dB) in the context of the overall sound levels (at my ear or thereabouts) Is the 120dB at 1metre?

I see there's a nice one going on here .......

Not sure this is in line with the question, ..... but...... I have been using a Studiomaster Sense 12+ as a floor monitor in a noisy band. No drums but Vocals/guitar/+/_Bass. I found it to be better than my RCF Art 710 even with the latter on a pole. It's a very neat (small) footprint as it has a concentric driver and is relatively light and inexpensive. It can also be pole mounted.

Most weekends my right ear is closer to the Crash Cymbal than is the drummer's left lug hole, ...... I'm clearly doomed! 😲

Right ..... Sound Meter app installed - I'll measure on stage and FOH volumes just to check that it is really loud and not me being a sensitive sort of chap. I know it won't be very accurate, but it'll give an indication. I'll ask the experts in the band what they consider loud before I do it and share the results. I'd be very surprised if we're not in excess of 120dB on stage ..... let's see.

Well - 2 guitar amps - I think its a 40 Watt Marshal Combo and a Friedman JEL-20/Marshall ?? via a 2x12 Marshal cab - so at face value not too loud. But they are ........... (My Genzler 800Watt Magellan via a 15/12inch Mesa rig rarely get above 10 O'Clock on the volume, but even that in small spaces is LOUD!) To put this into context - we use RCF 932's and a RCF 705 Sub. The Sub's just ticking over but the volume on the Tops is pretty much full at most gigs. So, I'm embarrassed to say we are just too loud! I've enough info to make a stab at solving some of the on stage volume issues and am negotiating within the band. Controlling the overall volume will come but it'll take a while. I'll check out the Paul White pocketbook - thanks.

The issue with drums is that whilst very loud overall, the Kick drum and to a lesser degree, the Snare, benefit from reinforcement. It is odd, but the volume of the band seems independent of these 2 aspects to the extent that, even in smaller venues, the reinforcement benefits the overall sound. But yes, we are too loud, certainly on stage and possibly in the "auditorium". I'm working on it..............

What would you say the differences are between the 800+ , TT800 are to the WD 800? I saw a band using a Subway 2x15 with the WD800 over the weekend, and I have to say it was "the sound" I have in my head. I've played the same venue and of course my memory may be a bit dodgy but it sounded far better than my set up. I guess it could be talent though!!

Pardon?

Update - Whilst waiting for the ABC control the 25K tone pot arrived. Expecting the ABC tomorrow so I thought I'd check out the available space in preparation for routing out a battery box etc. Being one for instant gratification I bunged the tone pot in anyway just to see ......... Bloody Hell! Just wasted the afternoon playing my part modded bass .... it's transformed. The tone knob now actually makes a significant difference (to the, er, ... tone..) and the insertion loss, whilst still there, is diminished. So far only played via 'phones, but its a real difference. If the ABC control achieves the predictable blend that I'm after, this bass will be an absolute killer. Just got to be patient though .... I could easily transform it to firewood with a router ....... ( and yes I expect incoming remarks ....) 😅