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[quote name='51m0n' post='458504' date='Apr 9 2009, 03:31 PM']Its not the PZM specifically that causes that - its the fact that you are actually recording the room....[/quote] wasn't that my point? hence my recommendation of the H2, as it can be set to pick up less of the room.... also the blumlein pair you mention is just MS -- the "M" mic can be any polar pattern you want, depending on the results you want. fryer, glad we could help

[quote name='xgsjx' post='459044' date='Apr 10 2009, 08:57 AM']+1 for the Producer Placebo Box. It reminds me of guitarist's amp controls. He turns them & it sounds no different. I did a little investigating & discovered a dial on the back of his amp that says wattage below it, set to max of course... I suspect this being the only thing on the amp that can adjust the noise he produces in rehearsals! [/quote] our guitarist has one of those...all the way on one side, runs at class AB and puts out 100 watts; the other side and it runs just class A and puts out 30 watts guess who unwittingly gets set to run in class A a lot!

nice one, sounding good! also reminds me of a track I did a while back, must be something in the chord progression i think.

you could re-bias and use 6L6's, but that will just end up costing you the same or more. i should add, that only works with some amps. sadly, there's no way around the expense -- but it's worth it!

hmmm you've made me want to get it now -- I'll have a listen and tell you what i think! ^_^

Adobe Audition is pretty reasonably priced, don't know if that's Vista compatible. If you can pick up a copy of Cakewalk SONAR 6 (slightly older version) that's brilliant as well, although it may be a little tougher to find and more expensive than Audition (it's cheaper than SONAR 7 though) edit: whoops, sorry, audition is a lot more expensive than i though. I think reaper can be had for cheap/free? Not too sure, i know it's changed recently. Does audacity not work?

What mics do you have? Can't really tell you without knowing that -- although personal preference is for kick + two overheads, or kick + MS overhead

the Gamma ten looks good to me. also slightly cheaper, the alpha ten, or the fane sovereign 10-275, which should also both work fine, as it's only a 30W amp. all of these speakers seem to have pretty good efficiency, my vote would be for the alpha ten i think, as far as price/performance goes...but that's just me. any of those would work.

ahh, i was thinking of DHA while writing my post but then completely forgot to put it in...d'oh!

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='458281' date='Apr 9 2009, 12:27 PM']I'd make a 'producer placebo box' using bits from maplin. - aluminium box, pots, footswitch, jack sockets etc. The input will be connected directly to the output and there'd be at least one footswitch and pot not connected to anything. Go crazy with painting it and give it a suitably funky name. With that on your board, anytime a bandmate asks you to make a change to your sound (including a request to turn the volume down) you'll have some controls to adjust to make them happy without actually messing up your sound. [/quote] I think i'm actually going to do that.

[quote name='everogere' post='457811' date='Apr 8 2009, 09:01 PM']Thanks for all that info, thats what i thought really just wondered if there was any tricks ![/quote] -don't turn the bass controls up, as the sound gets louder, the bass levels you hear will naturally increase due to the non-linear way the ear is sensitive to different frequencies. boosting the bass frequencies will not necessarily help and will only waste more amplifier power that could be used elsewhere in the spectrum. -if you can, always cut the EQ frequencies you don't want, instead of boosting the ones you do -lots of mids in the 330Hz range can help you be heard in a dense mix -radical EQ'ing is usually not necessary. +/-3 dB can go a long way towards getting the right sound. these are just a few things i've found.

[quote name='umph' post='458027' date='Apr 9 2009, 12:59 AM']its not a good idea they just get angry and turn up more then say the bass is far to loud[/quote] that's pretty much what happened >.< them: "your bass is far too loud, it's making the room go 'whoouum' when we play" me: "oh really? well, if it's MY bass, why is it coming out of YOUR 4x12?"

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='458015' date='Apr 9 2009, 12:29 AM']Good thread. I was going to post something similar, about why is it, when I have a great bass sound (lovely and fat and with plenty of bottom end without being muffled) it doesn't work with the band? (2 guitar line up old school metal). The sound that does work, sounds horrible on it's own, all toppy and upper middy, but when the band are playing it works [/quote] it's all about the frequencies that will cut through -- guitarists tend to get rid of their upper mids, hence leaving them for you see if you can get them to roll off the bass control on their amps a LOT -- it won't sound so great on its own but in the band suddenly everything will be much clearer

seems like the bass ones are SWR Interstellar Overdrive, Aguilar Agro -- if you can find/afford them. maybe try a guitar one? like a rocktron gainiac, blended with a clean signal? or maybe try rackmounting a floor pedal? or try a something like a regular tube mic preamp -- some of those go into distortion very nicely.

PZM mics tend to only be as good as the room they're in -- and even then, then can pick up too much of that room. Interesting concept, works better for somethings than others though -- usually things like pianos do well, in the right space. For those of you into recording, if you really want to try some interesting drum stuff, try a kick mic and an overhead MS configuration. Stereo AB pair tends to work quite well though, and doesn't pick up too much room. I think this post is wildly off topic to the OP though, my apologies! If you're just looking to get ideas down, something like a zoom H2 would be perfect for you, i think!

[quote name='lowdown' post='457122' date='Apr 8 2009, 10:11 AM'] I was lucky enough to attend a seminar with Bob katz and his team a couple of years back...[/quote] Oooh, lucky. Funnily enough, I've learned a fair amount of this stuff from reading his book on mastering -- a really good read if you haven't read it. If only i had 1/10th of his talents! ^_^

[quote name='fryer' post='457055' date='Apr 8 2009, 08:13 AM']Therefore, is an 8 track, ie, Boss BR 600 suitable ?[/quote] it looks that way. no xlr inputs though, it doesn't look like, so plugging in a condenser mic wouldn't be possible.

i finish my degree in a few weeks -- sooo not doing this again! Besides, tours are fun for the right now, but a degree is much more useful in the long run so i would have to say no

[quote name='alexclaber' post='456955' date='Apr 7 2009, 11:18 PM']It is entirely to do with the headroom you allow yourself. For every 6dB of unused dynamic range you are giving up one bit. As 10dB is only twice as loud and few drummers are completely consistent in their playing if you set the meters so they peak at -10dB when setting up you are then recording a signal that is basically only 14 bits deep - the 15th and 16th bits stay as 0 all the time unless you have a moment of excessive volume (and thus you are protected from digital clipping). All the dithering in the world can't do anything with a number that has zeros at the start. Alex[/quote] the point is not how close to 0dBFS you are, it's how high off the usable noise floor you are! bit depth controls how low this can be, and thus the dynamic range -- and dithering has everything to do with this! trust me! a certain bit depth does not "waste" more or less bits in recording. Also, the 6dB thing again, applies to the effective dynamic range, and therefore basically the noise floor, NOT 0dBFS. sorry! but 0dBFS never gets any higher, no matter how many bits you use. 16-bit has a theoretical minimum of around -91dBFS without dithering, while 24-bit is around -137dBFS (although no ADC are that quiet) -- that's where the extra bits go! I can see how you probably confused the 6dB per bit thing with a loss of two zeros -- the problem is you've approached it from the wrong end of the scale.

[quote name='ashevans09' post='456927' date='Apr 7 2009, 10:43 PM']That's freaking awesome Do the cab too! If it's an 810 it will make my year [/quote] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=10285&view=findpost&p=397427"]already done[/url]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='456682' date='Apr 7 2009, 06:46 PM']Regarding 16 bit vs 24 bit, I'm not talking about making rehearsal recordings, demos, etc. I'm talking about producing a studio recording that I would be happy to release. The killer when using 16 bit for tracking a live band or rhythm section is that you have to throw away quite a few bits to avoid clipping in the midst of a good take. If you have nice compressors and limiters and are willing to get those tuned in and track through them then 16 bit is fine but running uncompressed into a 16 bit recorder you have to leave a good 10dB of headroom to guarantee being free of digital distortion.[/quote] sorry to keep going on about this, but the bit depth you record at has nothing to do with the headroom you allow yourself. 16-bit, 24-bit, it doesn't make a difference to the mic pre's or the ADC. Recording in 16-bit will not give you 14 bits. it will give you 16-bits, with a noise floor and artifacts after post-processing that are slightly higher than if you'd recorded in 24 from the start -- but it's still 16 bits! Like i said before, with proper dithering (meaning good or at least decent ADC's) the dynamic range is still huge! 24-bit audio will not give you a larger headroom, only a lower theoretical noise floor! Which to be honest, is probably not utilized by most people anyways. Studio recordings of professional quality can be done in 16-bit from start to finish -- they were for many years! Sample rates are the same way -- higher is not always better, there are a lot of factors to consider, some benefits and some drawbacks -- so while 24-bit 96kHz is the common (and IMO the best) standard, for those of you recording in 16-bit 44.1kHz, you can still get amazing results!

[quote name='redstriper' post='456534' date='Apr 7 2009, 04:12 PM']I don't remember which model the motu was, but it was an expensive 19" rackmount job. I used it with logic and cubase, but it was always crashing and putting glitches in the audio, also had latency problems and the support from motu was virtually nil. A friend of mine had the same model and he experienced similar problems.[/quote] That's unfortunate, MOTU stuff is actually very good, IME well designed and very reliable, and I always recommend it when the budget allows. Without knowing anything else about the situation, I couldn't guess what it was -- maybe you were both just very unlucky the only complaint i have about MOTU is that the price has gone up as bad as some hartke stuff has lately -- a year ago an 8Pre could be had for 340, it is now 480!! [quote]The only problem I had with it was a burnt out power supply[/quote] that is all too familiar -- in their mixing desks, in their monitors, in their amplifiers. the list goes on. i'm glad it's still working for you, getting two supplies was probably a good idea. their customer service is generally pretty good -- well it would have to be, wouldn't it ^_^

[quote name='alexclaber' post='456544' date='Apr 7 2009, 04:26 PM']I like it very much. If you know what you're doing you can definitely produce release quality material - the four track EP linked in my sig was done entirely on it bar final mastering. Drums and bass were tracked simultaneously and the unit is simple enough to use that it was then passed round the band for overdubs until the tracks were ready to mix down. If you want to make high quality digital recordings it is essential be able to record at 24 bit IMO. Avoiding clipping with 16 bit involves throwing away too much resolution.[/quote] yea, i suppose, yours must be a bit better than mine then. i suppose i just find all of the post production to be a lot easier on a computer, especially when it comes to things like automation -- 64 bit processing is much nicer as well as it reduces the amount iterations of truncation/dither required. so i just end up transferring whatever i record to the computer anyways, and dealing with it there. when it comes to things like compression, reverb, and eq, i suppose it's not really fair to compare my portable desk to what i can get from waves plugins -- the thing is, for me, the option is there, and i'd rather use the waves plugins. i'm afraid i have to disagree with you as well on the 16-bit thing -- 24-bit is necessary for quality recordings if a lot of post production is done, however this idea that somehow 16-bit has "low resolution" is, frankly, just not true -- a properly dithered 16-bit signal will have a usable dynamic range of 115dB! -- far more than all but the very best playback systems. 24-bit recording however allows the accumulated truncation and dither noise from processing (as mentioned above) to effectively be "cut out" of the final 16-bit product. by the way, even the best ADC's will all self-dither due to thermal noise around the 20th bit -- the last four really are to help with cutting out truncation noise! (edited to add a bit)

[quote name='alexclaber' post='456393' date='Apr 7 2009, 01:51 PM']Tascam 2488 Mk2: [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun07/articles/tascam2488mk2.htm"]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun07/arti...scam2488mk2.htm[/url] (I actually ordered a Mk1 version which was dead cheap due to being superseded but they mistakenly sent me the new model!) Alex[/quote] how do you find that? i've got a similar thing but find it's easier to just take a laptop usually...hence i've never really used mine. but mine is a bit older than yours, i think. In fact, i'm considering selling it, if the OP is interested.

[quote name='redstriper' post='456378' date='Apr 7 2009, 01:32 PM']I use an alesis multimix 16 firewire mixer like [url="http://www.djdeals.co.uk/product-downloads.asp?AID=1230&DownloadCat=2"]this.[/url] It records up to 16 channels at once to cubase and is very stable and good quality. You don't need a separate mixer, it's all in one box and it comes with basic cubase. I've had mine 2 years, I use it a lot and it's never crashed. I think they've stopped making them, but they come up on ebay and it won't break the bank. I've also used a MOTU interface and had all sorts of problems with it.[/quote] which motu, and running what system? ironically, i used to work for alesis but i never really hugely cared for those multimix mixers.