thisnameistaken

[quote name='alexclaber' post='221827' date='Jun 18 2008, 11:41 PM']Oh yes, and the most important chops for a bass player are the ones everyone takes for granted yet are often so bad at - tone, timing and taste.[/quote] Big +1 At the moment I'm in the early stages of getting together a sort of stripped-down soul/r&b-based outfit and the bass stuff really is a huge challenge for me. Playing very little but right at the front of the mix, trying to outline the changes behind the vocal without stepping on it, basically being the whole song whilst being invisible and [i]still[/i] grooving. I've done funk gigs before and thought that was a good grounding for anything, but this gig requires a fraction of those chops and yet 100x more skill. Listening to lots of Pino and Hub at the moment. Huge respect for those guys

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='221782' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:38 PM']Not at all; I quite agree with you. I was responding to thisnameistaken's argument, which struck me as more than a little flippant![/quote] I was trying to make a point about how useless analogies of that kind can be. [quote name='ianrunci' post='221755' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:07 PM']So learning shakespeare and performing it on stage doesn't make people better actors?[/quote] Actors are rarely asked to do anything but deliver lines which were written by somebody else. If all you want to do is skilfully deliver things that are written by somebody else then yes by all means learning covers is a great idea. Is that a creative exercise? My answer is still "no". What you didn't consider was that actors rarely mimic other actors, whereas musicians in cover bands routinely mimic other musicians. So again we have an analogy just doesn't work. Have you ever read a review where an actor was lauded for his accurate reproduction of Gielgud's portrayal of Hamlet? [quote name='ianrunci' post='221755' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:07 PM']To truly learn to play a complicated bassline from any record that you find difficult and challenging to play is a learning experience surely.[/quote] Sure, but does it do anything for your creativity? [quote name='ianrunci' post='221755' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:07 PM']I imagine there are only two ways to improve as a player and that is to learn challenging lines or to constantly practice scales.[/quote] I think those two exercises will improve your movement on the instrument, and would of course be a good starting point for any musician, but again I don't think they'd do much for creativity. Certainly not compared to spending the same amount of time either working on a new song or a new arrangement of an old song or even just noodling with the bass on your own. [quote name='ianrunci' post='221755' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:07 PM']I don't think there is much difference whether your playing in a cover band or playing in an original band as far as playing skills go, but when it comes to writing an interesting bassline, having a good idea of how to string one together helps. And surely it depends anyway on what covers you are learning. If you go from playing original indie music to learning tunes by Pastorios & Clarke etc then how can that not make you a better player?[/quote] Well I might be in the minority here but I don't see a hierarchy of bassists with Mani at the bottom and Stanley Clarke at the top. I always loved the stuff Bruce Foxton did on the old Jam records but I doubt he'd spent much time working out Stanley Clarke tunes. The point I'm trying to make is that for a non-professional musician like myself, the time you actually get to spend with your instrument is likely to be fairly limited, and in terms of maintaining creative skills I think learning covers is a big waste of what precious little time you can find. Yeah it might keep your chops in good order, but if you're a bass player in 99% of situations you'll be playing well within your physical limits anyway, so time spent on physically difficult stuff is IMHO time that could be better spent learning something else.

Your filter should work better if you put the compressor after it, other than that I don't have any suggestions for you. Distortion tends to sound better before a filter (when they're both on) but again, distortion tends to even out the peaks and gives the filter's envelope follower less to work with. Might be worth trying the distortion first though, depending on how much you crank it.

Still on the writing metaphor: My girlfriend reads more than anyone I know, but always has me proof-read anything she writes and asks me for spellings. Apparently all that reading hasn't been much of a help to her writing.

[quote name='peteb' post='221713' date='Jun 18 2008, 08:54 PM']Surely when you learn a cover you not only work out the bass line – to do it justice you need to have an understanding of the mechanics and arrangement of that song[/quote] Depends. As a bass player you probably don't need to know anything except the order the notes are in and what the song's supposed to sound like. Whereas you'd need a much better understanding to have written the song in the first place, so again I'll contend that playing covers is not a creative pursuit and it will not bring any benefits to other creative pursuits you may... er... pursue. [quote name='peteb' post='221713' date='Jun 18 2008, 08:54 PM']Also, it’s pretty obvious that the more you play live the better a player and performer you become[/quote] Objection, yer honour; cover bands are only one of many different types of acts which perform live.

It'll be a couple of weeks I think before I get my hands on it, but I'll no doubt be posting in here like a kid at christmas when I do.

[quote name='ianrunci' post='221645' date='Jun 18 2008, 07:01 PM']Learning new riffs is expanding your knowledge and that can only help when it comes to creating original material.[/quote] I disagree. Learning other peoples' songs only teaches you other peoples' songs. If you sat down with them and studied them in depth then maybe you'd learn something more generally useful about music, but simply lifting the line off a record and memorising it in order to repeat it in a pub at the weekend will teach you nothing. More importantly, that's time you could've spent either studying something more challenging or experimenting on your own, either of which would've had greater returns. [quote name='ianrunci' post='221645' date='Jun 18 2008, 07:01 PM']Its like an author doing an English degree, its hardly going to make his writing worse is it, quite the opposite I would presume[/quote] I would argue that dissecting a work of literature and demonstrating an understanding of it is a markedly different pursuit to memorising a bass line.

I recently ordered one of [url="http://www.martoneaudio.com/PulseSynth.htm"]these[/url] to try to cop more authentic-sounding mono synth tones - I think it will work pretty well on bass. I also ordered the "Meatwad" (Meatball clone) from him because you can turn off the envelope follower and just use it as a static filter, or sweep it with an exp. pedal. That's a pretty pricey solution though, and I can't tell you whether it works yet because they're still in the mail. Fingers crossed though! The Moog FreqBox should also be able to produce authentic synth sounds with the osc hard-synced to the input signal, but again you'd probably want a filter after it to shape it. There's also the upcoming Octavius Squeezer from Chunk Systems which will be able to do similar things. Apparently the waveform sounds from the Boss SYB pedals is pretty good too, it just doesn't track very well. Not sure what other options there are, except buying a synth. There's a few SH-101s on eBay at the moment?

[quote name='peteb' post='220825' date='Jun 17 2008, 06:38 PM']Jake, I don’t think that Gypsymoth is talking about avoiding people because of prejudice or any sort of bigotry, simply that he would rather not seek out the company of people who are a bit pretentious and take themselves too seriously[/quote] There's a large gulf between being pretentious and being discerning. I'd rather dismiss mainstream garbage for what it is and take the risk of being called pretentious by thick people, frankly. [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O-kHB2fWUS8"]A bit of light relief[/url].

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='220710' date='Jun 17 2008, 04:15 PM']I am both but the industry I operate in seems to require a considerably higher number of craftsmen than artists (like most industries, I guess).[/quote] That's not necessarily such a bad thing I suppose. A band full of John Lennons or Joe Strummers would no doubt self-destruct in pretty short order. Every great artist needs quality sidemen. That's not so say I wouldn't rather be the great artist than the quality sideman, of course. Anyway, to fulfil the requirement of the thread: I think I get hired because I can play my instrument and sing a bit, but I've always contributed to the writing too. I think if I wasn't contributing any ideas beyond a bass riff per tune I would start to feel uncomfortably replacable!

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='220610' date='Jun 17 2008, 02:32 PM']... To paraphrase Ellis Marsalis, if you play for money or applause, that's all you will ever get. [quote name='stingrayfan' post='220614' date='Jun 17 2008, 02:34 PM'] Doesn't sap my creativity at all. I play great basslines to audiences that love the songs and get paid for it.[/quote] [/quote]

I like one of the tunes on their Myspace site. Reminds me a bit of [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JSmZFBP3Nok"]Dag[/url].

I think you can learn stuff from other peoples' tunes, but you can learn much more by creating your own. I also think creativity is in some respects a skill that can and will get rusty if you don't use it regularly.

Mostly Asian Dub Foundation... [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jywa9oK3ytU"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jywa9oK3ytU[/url] ... and Los Fabulosos Cadillacs ... [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KIiJoHKa8Fg"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KIiJoHKa8Fg[/url] ... and the sadly overlooked live-band-backed rappers The Goats: [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wv5sR9GDVx4"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wv5sR9GDVx4[/url]

Looks like a Whammy pedal in the video. Logic says it's probably a Whammy pedal. Have you tried a Whammy pedal? Applying Occam's Razor, I'm going to go with "It's a Whammy pedal".

Start recording yourself practicing. If you're not using both hands to mute strings you'll probably find that some stuff you play comes with noisy overtones! Actually one song that's terribly over-studied at the moment does a really good job of teaching you good muting habits: Hysteria by Muse. Slow it down if you need to, just for the sake of getting through it, and you'll find playing it cleanly is actually pretty complicated in terms of muting, and techniques like the one you're talking about come in very handy.

If the pickguard isn't a must-have (and why would it be...) the G&L L2000 would be worth trying. Especially if there's a very particular sound you're trying to achieve because it's got so many tonal options onboard. And it's another Leo Fender design with a P-type neck. Maybe an old Gibson Ripper or Grabber might do the trick if you definitely DO need a pickguard.

[quote name='molan' post='218596' date='Jun 13 2008, 10:08 PM']Here's an example of Barnes' playing from a more recent gig. If the slapping gets too much just wait until Nile joins in on super funky guitar about half way through [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yxTNIi2g14&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yxTNIi2g14...feature=related[/url][/quote] That doesn't sound at all like Chic. It doesn't work without Bernard.

[quote name='truegeminis' post='218152' date='Jun 13 2008, 10:41 AM']I've ordered the Pickle Pie 'B'. Just wondering how long did it take for the pedal to arrive from time of shipping?[/quote] I ordered mine on the 28th of May, sent an email to Matt earlier this week and he said it would be another 7-10 days, so it looks like 3-4 weeks at the moment. He told me he was really busy before I ordered so I was expecting that sort of delay anyway.

Have you changed your rig at all? My OC-2 seems to do very little with the two-octaves-down knob but I'm putting it through a very average 4x10 so I don't expect to hear much of it.

These are all great fun to play. Couple of repeats here but worth repeating: Specials - Monkey Man (more reliant on the bass than Toots & The Maytals' original) Specials - Ghost Town Specials - Too Much, Too Young Specials - Nite Klub Madness - House of Fun Fishbone - Lying Ass Bitch Fishbone - Ma and Pa Fishbone - Unyielding Condition Sublime - Doin' Time (ska George Gershwin!) Operation Ivy - Bombshell Rancid - Time Bomb

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='217084' date='Jun 11 2008, 06:15 PM']I may well be going hugely off the point here, but I find Steve Lawson's thoughts on originality particularly interesting: [url="http://www.stevelawson.net/wordpress/2008/04/thoughts_and_qu/"]http://www.stevelawson.net/wordpress/2008/...houghts_and_qu/[/url][/quote] I lost interest when he quoted Bono (someone else who should've been either exiled or executed decades ago) but he does have something of a point, albeit a non-point. Genres are fine, so long as somebody brings something of quality to it. But he's not talking about cover bands.

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='216879' date='Jun 11 2008, 02:16 PM']People like familiar songs though! I like singing along to songs I've heard before, even if I wouldn't listen to them at home.[/quote] I don't think there's anything wrong with playing familiar tunes as-such, but I think a good public performance should challenge the audience in some way too. The odd old song or cover for light relief would no doubt be welcome, but at least send them home feeling like they've heard or experienced something new. [quote name='queenofthedepths' post='216879' date='Jun 11 2008, 02:16 PM']Anyway, I'd rather see a good cover band than a derivative originals band with little to offer artistically.[/quote] I've never gone out to see a cover band and I can't imagine I ever would. And I would honestly rather see a band made up of kids who can barely play beating the living crap out of their guitars with real vitality and belief, than see a bunch of famous, ageing rockers in a stadium with a squillion-dollar light show knocking out the hits they had in the '60s or '70s. For me, the former is going to be more entertaining. I think there's more humanity in it. I suppose it depends what you want from your music and your musicians.