Doddy

Silddx- You say that you are not discouraging reading, but by saying that it can be a burden is a very discouraging statement. Knowing how to read doesn't mean you want to be a session or pit player either. Like I said,it opens up a whole world of material that you can use to improve your playing-be that the many books that are available or the exercises on the bass magazines. I learned to read from the beginning-like every other musician that I've grown up around-and didn't do a reading gig for years,but when a reading gig came along,I was ready. I still do plenty of gigs where I don't need to read,but I also get a lot of calls because I can. I also teach reading as a basic skill,and no one has ever thought that it was a waste of time. The OP has now stated that he doesn't think it's something that he wants to do,so that kind of renders his initial question as moot.

[quote name='silddx' post='1004362' date='Oct 28 2010, 08:51 PM']Reading music is not necessarily making things easier, sometimes it can be a burden. It is a tool, and as such it is only useful in certain situations.[/quote] Bullshit. Yes reading is a tool,but it is [u]never[/u] a burden. The only people who ever say that are those who cannot read. Back to the OP.... Learning the notes on the 'board ,I believe,is basic and vital. I would suggest learning the fingerboard in conjunction with the notes on the stave. It's not really difficult if you do them both together,and like I said earlier,it will open up a whole world of material that isn't available to you now. Of course you should train your ear as well,but if you can do both you will have a distinct advantage.

I wear my ER-15's at gigs aswell.

[quote name='AndyTravis' post='1004014' date='Oct 28 2010, 04:38 PM']I've been in bands for 13 years, and i've never learned to read music. It hasn't hindered me in the bands i've been in, but i would have applied for bigger gigs/sessions if my sight reading was good. My mate Joe and I worked in a shop together 2 or 3 years ago, he is an amazing reader/pianist and noodled a bit on the bass. An agent from Dubai pops in looking for a bass player for a high profile hotels resident band. He reccomended me, but mentioned i couldn't read too well, and he's now out in Dubai playing bass every day, living in a 5-star hotel free food, free drink and he gets minnimum $2000 a month tax free... Before he left, i showed him all the techniques and tricks he thought he'd need to play the setlist he had been given. What does that tell you? If i'd have learned theory as well as technique, i'd be much better off financially and a lot more suntanned.[/quote] So,I take it,that from that lesson, you are now learning to read?

[quote name='blind pilot' post='1003989' date='Oct 28 2010, 04:19 PM']Has worked for me, and in my situation, being able to read music offers no benefit at all![/quote] If you can't read,how do you know that it offers no benefit at all?

I'll always recommend learning to read to anyone-There are absolutely no downsides to learning it. You may never use it in your current band,but you never know what may happen down the line. Plus,it opens up a whole new world of information.You'll benefit from being able to buy and understand many books that are available,or even just the exercises that are printed in magazines.

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1001610' date='Oct 26 2010, 07:48 PM']He also has a 6 string fretted Compito, an old school Graphite Steinberger, a Kubicki Ex Factor and an old long scale Alembic (either a Series I or II) which he had in the early 80's - the story being that he bought that bass when he had the money for it when he was young and used it non-stop. He was recording in NYC when a producer told him he didn't like the bass and sent him out to get another one. Vic came back with his Monarch "#1" bass and the rest is history! As for bassists getting free basses, I just don't think the small luthiers can afford it! However, Stanley Clarke did get a free Alembic Stanley Clarke bass as as gift after buying Alembic basses for 30 years![/quote] Don't forget his Univox Violin bass,that's pictured on the cover of 'What did he say' and 'The Music Lesson'. Let's be honest,he's got loads of basses....... In an old issue of Bass Player,he mentions(excluding his Fodera's) a Conklin 8 string and EUB, Compito 5 and 6 strings,Kubicki Factor,Roscoe 5 string,Alembic Series 1,Nechville Banjo Bass,Taylor acoustic bass Univox Violin and a Juzek Upright. He's also pictured with a Fodera Yin Yang Singlecut(Imperial?) on the inlay of 'Palmystery' and used a Sitar Bass on one album. Mostly though it's one of his Fodera Monarch's-either #1,Yin Yang,or Tenor. Although he also uses an NYC Empire,and he used a Bolt on Monarch the other year when he was in the UK with the Flecktones.

[quote name='choobakka' post='1001157' date='Oct 26 2010, 02:28 PM']What does this mean exactly?[/quote] Let's take a dead basic 12 bar progression as an example,in the key of C. Try playing a basic walking line by playing crotchets(quarter notes) using just triads in a 1,3,5,3, pattern. So,over the C chord you'll play C,E,G,E, over the F chord you'll play F,A,C,A, and over G you'll play G,B,D,G. What you are doing is playing the notes that are in a major chord as an arpeggio (the notes of a chord played individually). If you were to play this with a guitar player who is soloing,by playing this pattern you and he will still be able to hear what the chords are because you will be playing them as an arpeggio. That's what I mean when I say you outline the chords.

[quote name='choobakka' post='1001065' date='Oct 26 2010, 01:06 PM']I seem to be able to understand [i]how[/i] to play the triads (R-3-5 and inversions all over the fretboard) but I can't seem to grasp [i]why[/i]. Thanks for the tips Tom but I still don't quite understand their purpose![/quote] You say you can play 'Midnight Hour'-that's a good example of the purpose of triads(as is a standard rock and roll style line). Basically a triad is the notes that make up a basic chord- 1,3,5. So,when you ask 'why' do you use them,the simple answer is you play them to outline the chord. Just out of interest,are you learning them by fingerings,or are you going by the notes (eg. C,E,G, D,F#,A etc)?

Ronnie Lane

[quote name='silddx' post='1000690' date='Oct 26 2010, 12:24 AM']Right, I do not in any way denigrate or cast dark upon the wonderful opportunities that understanding theory and sight reading can afford. My point is that to compose great music is very different to simply recreating it. So many players now are being brought up with th notion they will be better "musicians" if they learn to read and learn classical four part harmony. Very good, but what if they have a limited musical mind? Sure they can do sessions and be a mechanic, but what if they think they can compose and put out an album of sh*t? The greatest thing missing in modern tuition is to enable mechanics to realise the potential to be composers or to know that can't be. Being able to manipulate paint in the way of Giotto does not make one an artist. The skill of the musician artist is to create something which is a true reflection of themselves or the songwriter they are serving. That depends upon developing a sense of self and in turn that requires a certain personality. Some people have it and recognise the tools they need and acquire them. Others are destined to be mechanics and acquire the skills they need to perform their function. All are a necessary part of music creation, but learning all that theory does not make anyone a composer in the way being able to read and write in your chosen language does not make them a worthwhile author or poet. It takes an immeasurable amount more than that. It takes an attitude to the world that you feel compelled to communicate. If you have that, then you will have an individual way of building your toolbox.[/quote] I get where you are coming from,but I think the main difference here is that we are looking at it from different angles. Sure,composition is very important,but for me it is not the be all and end all. That particular SMV video was all about entertainment and having fun,and so that's how I took it.I looked at it as three great players having fun,with some cool moments thrown in. I do think that you knowing how to read and learning harmony will make you a better musician though,in the same way that being literate will help you be a better songwriter. Being a good musician doesn't have anything to do with composition,and vice versa.Sure,there are people who can do both very well,but there are probably even more who don't. Many great players just don't have the inspiration/ideas/interest in composing music, but it doesn't lessen what they do as musicians.

Fodera Monarch

I'll bump this again. It's a great chance to see a great player in an ace shop.

[quote name='arthurhenry' post='998802' date='Oct 24 2010, 01:04 PM']I'd like to see one where the virtuosos put their money where their mouths are and just held down the low end like they're always teling us to do, after they've unleashed a flurry of cutlery tray down the stairs type slapped 32nd notes. Sheehan steps up and plays sraight 8ths on one note for 4 bars, then Wooten hits a low E and holds it for the next 4, Steve Bailey plays Quarter notes for 4 bars and then Manring plays a root, 3rd, 5th walking line. No chance![/quote] But when these guys get a chance to solo situation of course they aren't going to 'hold down the low end'. Guitar players don't just play the same chordal pattern or riff and piano players don't continue to comp when it's time to solo-every instrumentalist cuts loose when they have the chance. [quote name='silddx' post='999057' date='Oct 24 2010, 05:27 PM']I'm appalled. Thanks for posting it ET, I have learned why I trust my ears, and why I ignore those who implore me to learn to sight read and learn theory.[/quote] Sorry,but I think that's a spur of the moment,bullshit comment. Why ignore those who say you should learn theory and to read? It won't make you play like Marcus,Victor or Stanley,and it won't make you play music you don't like. Doesn't Scott Thunes put value on reading and theory? [quote name='silddx' post='999087' date='Oct 24 2010, 05:58 PM']There is no James Brown, no Frank Zappa, no great composer to challenge them and utilise their technical talent. That video demonstrated such a lack of integrity in those musicians, such immaturity, that anyone who has true musical values and immense knowledge of theory would probably be ashamed.[/quote] No there isn't a James Brown or Zappa there,but these guys have worked with enough people in the past that have,and do 'challenged them and utilise their technical talent'. I just took that clip for what it was-an entertaining part of the live show. The SMV album actually has some good music on it. [quote name='silddx' post='999087' date='Oct 24 2010, 05:58 PM']If I had that level of talent, I know I would need to do something with it, but I wouldn't want to end up like that and I know it's possible I might and I would have to kill myself [/quote] You wouldn't end up like that if you didn't want to. There are many technically and musically advanced players who are working in loads of 'non-chopsy' situations. You'd only 'end up like that' if you wanted to...which you don't. [quote name='Oscar South' post='999613' date='Oct 25 2010, 02:34 AM']Decision time.. do I pick up Live At The Greek in album form too..?? Two amazing Stanley Clarke CD's for £10 is a pretty good investment[/quote] Yeah,get it......It's possibly my favourite Stanley album.

[quote name='Delberthot' post='999541' date='Oct 24 2010, 11:35 PM']My favourite drummer of all time Buddy Rich never practiced ever.[/quote] I think that's just another part of the myth. Joe Morrello says that him and Buddy often used to sit and practice together. I usually pick the bass up for at least an hour a day,although if I'm feeling it,I could easily be there from anywhere between 2-3 hours and all day.

No

Bobby Watsons bassline from 'Rock With You' was transcribed in Bass Player a couple of years ago. It's an awesome line.

Esperanza is a great player and singer. I'm really digging her last couple of albums.

I really like Ibanez gear. I've got a GWB 35 Gary Willis model which is great,and a really nice BTB 6 string which I've fitted with a Roland V Bass Pickup. I've also got a couple of Ibanez guitars-a Talman Acoustic and an RG MIJ Special Edition.

Barenaked Ladies 'Rock Spectacle'. Love that band.

If it's an uncomfortable stretch then don't do it. Down in the lower positions try using a 3 fret stretch instead-double bass style. Put your 1st finger on the F,2nd on F# and little finger on G. Don't try to stretch your hand further than it wants to go.Instead,use your thumb as a pivot. Even though I can happily play finger per fret style,down low I nearly always play over 3 frets as I find it more relaxed. I usually switch to one finger per fret at around 5th position.

I think that if you are just learning to read it would be far better to do it without a metronome. At this stage it is far better to play the notes correctly and not worry about the time. If you have a click going it is too easy to just plough on regardless. Even with rhythms,I'd suggest just tapping your foot rather than playing to a click. That way, you are still playing in time,but it's flexible so you can slow it right down if you are struggling with a particular passage. I feel that in the practise room it doesn't really matter how long it takes you to get something right,as long as you eventually get it. The only time you absolutely need to be reading stuff correctly and in time is o the bandstand. If later on you want to use a click then go for it,but right now it may be more of a hinderence. For what it's worth,the I pretty much never use a metronome. The only time I do,I set it to click on 2 and 4 and blow over it. But for playing exercises,I've never used one.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='994590' date='Oct 20 2010, 11:34 AM']they will all probably have had the experience of me rattling on for ages after the time is up [/quote] Glad I'm not the only one who does that

[quote name='JMT3781' post='994337' date='Oct 20 2010, 12:50 AM']oh... (says in a very mouselike tone) i guess that explains the frequency of your lessons lol! I bet thats amazing. Good on you [/quote] It is a big part of it.....but I learn so much each lesson,it can keep me studying for months.

[quote name='JMT3781' post='994328' date='Oct 20 2010, 12:41 AM']wow. could you PM me the details for your teacher? staffordshire isn't too far from me[/quote] I don't mind sharing........ It's Janek Gwizdala.