Doddy

[quote name='silddx' post='1017572' date='Nov 9 2010, 02:21 PM']Oh ok. I'm not having a go mate. I'm just trying to establish what it is you are trying to achieve. Not so long ago, you seemed to be as rigid as Bilbo in your insistance that we should all learn to read, and those who didn't want to or who didn't feel the need were deluding themselves or had lesser aims in life. Should you wish to dispute that, you'll win because I can't be bothered, nor care enough, to trawl through all this sh*t to prove it. Someone else might though so be careful Cheers.[/quote] I don't recall ever saying those who don't want to learn were deluding themselves or had lesser aims in life.The only time I feel that people are vaguely deluding themselves is when they say that knowing theory/reading can be a hinderence. I do honestly believe that players, especially beginners,should learn how to read because even if you never use it with your band it is still a valuable skill to have and will open up a whole world of information that is unavailable to you otherwise,and I don't understand why someone would not want this.

[quote name='silddx' post='1017550' date='Nov 9 2010, 02:07 PM']So you admit you have limits then?[/quote] No,I was just going off your comment.

[quote name='silddx' post='1017538' date='Nov 9 2010, 01:59 PM']My limits are different, but no less worthy than your own.[/quote] I never said your limits were less worthy than mine.

[quote name='silddx' post='1017473' date='Nov 9 2010, 01:24 PM']Then you are being yourself, and that is wonderful, and to be celebrated. However, are you perhaps neglecting certain areas of your playing in your quest to be versatile?[/quote] Such as? [quote name='silddx' post='1017473' date='Nov 9 2010, 01:24 PM']I have to assume here that [b]what you mean by versatility[/b], is that you aim to both understand the role of the [b]bass [/b]and play it to a good standard whether improvising or reading off sheet, and be able to play to a high standard various styles of western music, on the bass. AM I right in that thinking? Or do you mean by [b]versatile[/b] that you are learning to play all the instruments of the orchestra and understand their roles theoretically and be able to improvise and read off sheet for those instruments? Then you will no doubt progress onto the North and South Indian, Arabic, Chinese, Gamelan and other classical and folk styles.[/quote] The bass-both electric and upright- are my chosen instruments and I constantly aim to play it at a higher standard than 'good'. However,as a [b]musician[/b], I do understand the roles of the instruments in the orchestra. And although I haven't studied 'non-western' styles in any particular depth,I do have both books and recordings of them. What I'm getting at,is I would rather aim to be a musician who plays bass than solely a bass player. That's not a derogatory thing at all-I have a total obsession with the bass,but I also want to look at music from other perspectives rather than just my chosen instruments particular role. [quote name='silddx' post='1017473' date='Nov 9 2010, 01:24 PM']What I am saying is that even incredibly schooled and technically adept musician is only versatile within the limits they have set themselves. In the grand scheme of music, one has to be a bit more philosophical about how to apply one's intellect and resources to the musical situations one wishes to encounter.[/quote] That's all about perspective.I would rather not set any limits for myself,why would I want to? I obviously have areas of music that I favour,but I don't want to rule out anything.

[quote name='JTUK' post='1017448' date='Nov 9 2010, 01:07 PM']To some people, organising is a doddle, others get really stressed out by it.. I would say a lot of things outside of the stage production is the role of tour manager, but when money is tight, these things may need to overlap.[/quote] That really depends on the level if the band/gig. Bigger tours will often have a tour manager to sort things off stage,but there are a lot of situations where the MD/ bandleader has to sort out everything.

[quote name='silddx' post='1017439' date='Nov 9 2010, 12:58 PM']I know I am right dearest Bilbo, it's simply a matter of you accepting that music theory and reading skills are not a panacea. And that being most versatile musician possible is not necessarily either a good or fulfilling thing, just as being the most versatile human being would be a ridiculous endeavour. Just be yourself.[/quote] I find being the most versatile musician I can be both good thing and very fulfilling.

Basically,what Pete said. The MD role varies slightly depending on the situation and the level,but the job is basically the same. Booking the band,arranging tunes,sort out rehearsals,call the tunes,counting in,some write charts,some programme parts,hire and fire. They are,importantly,the one who takes all the sh*t from the artist or company or whatever if things go wrong. Also,depending on the level of the gig,they can be the ones who not only take the gigs,but also sorts out things like food,accommodation,travel and money.Sometimes they even have to sort out things like arguments between members-basically they are in charge of the band and putting in a good performance.

[quote name='funky_numba' post='1017091' date='Nov 9 2010, 12:40 AM']Scales... ooh scary stuff!! I got a book from my local library.. Serious Electric Bass by Joel Di Bartolo. It's FULL of different kind of scales.. Mixolydian, Locrian, Dorian, Ionian... yuk!!! Seems a bit too heavy for a beginner like me. Think I will need to get a tutor to help with the basics first!!![/quote] That's a great book,but I think it is too much for you right now. Check out something like the Hal Leonard Bass Method (Complete Edition) by Ed Friedland. It'll give you a good grounding without being too overwhelming.

It left me. I bought a Corvette 5 about 10 years ago as my first 5 string. I loved it for a while,but I eventually got tired of it after about 4 or 5 years and swapped it for an Ibanez BTB 6 which I still own and prefer. I'd happily play another Warwick(especially the Streamer or the Thumb SC),but I much prefer their old Wenge necks to the Ovankol ones.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1016822' date='Nov 8 2010, 07:53 PM']I think that's the general concensus. But playing the correct notes doesn't need a knowledge of theory. Your ear should tell you if the notes are wrong.[/quote] True,but it does take away some of the trial and error and can help to prevent those wrong notes. [quote name='chaypup' post='1016846' date='Nov 8 2010, 08:04 PM']Those sexy avatars really confuse me - in my mind peteacademy is a sexy redhead. [/quote] He is [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1016935' date='Nov 8 2010, 09:22 PM']I still love the idea that if you can read you can play every style and tonal system from around the world live in front of thousands of people without making a mistake for the first time the dots are put in front of you. At what point do we class being able to read? Thats not me trying to stir it up I actually would like to know. If I could sit in with a large band and keep a tight root note performance from following the basic dots as it goes along it would sound OK does that count?[/quote] Your example would totally class as reading. Some people class being able to look at four bars and take an hour to study it as being able to read. I think that's stretching it a bit. I could sit down with a page of French and a dictionary,but I wouldn't say I could read. I'd class that more as being able to work it out. I'm not talking about sight reading really hard charts either. Even being able to read a simple crotchet pattern pretty quickly means you can read to a basic level.

[quote name='silddx' post='1016711' date='Nov 8 2010, 06:47 PM']That is wonderful, for YOU. A theatre tour sounds like hell for me, it is absolutely NOT what I got into music for. I like rocking out on a stage and pumping out original music, that's what [b]I[/b] like to do.[/quote] The point was that you can get all you need off a chart if you know what you are doing. That specific gig was just used as an example as it was recent. Edit..... Despite it being a reading gig,we were rocking out on stage. I like rocking out with original music too,and have no problems doing it either.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1016689' date='Nov 8 2010, 06:35 PM']There are just too many variables for anyone to state that with honest confidence that one approach or the other is best - or even mildly preferable - without honourably adding the caveat that each individual's mileage may vary.[/quote] Go on then...... I'll put my arse on the line and clearly state that the 'best' approach is to be comfortable in both theory/reading and groove/feel.

[quote name='risingson' post='1016590' date='Nov 8 2010, 05:15 PM']Unfortunately no one takes up guitar or bass with a view to learning the instrument like they would, say, a violin for example. Classical music dictates that you must learn to read from the word go. Conversely, most kids pick up a guitar at a young age because you want to play the rock music you love or look like Dave Grohl playing with the Foo Fighters or whatever so the ambition or 'seed' to learn theory is never planted in the head of that person.[/quote] This is very true. It's great that people want to take up instruments but it's a shame that those who take up instruments like bass,guitar and drums have kind of shunned some of the more traditional methods of learning. Horn and string players(and alot of keys players) learn to read as part of the basics- why should guitar,bass,drums be any different? [quote name='chris_b' post='1016622' date='Nov 8 2010, 05:38 PM']I bet Bilbo can play in 24/13. I must have missed that chapter![/quote] I bet he can't [quote name='silddx' post='1016648' date='Nov 8 2010, 06:10 PM']Notation is extremely useful but it can only convey basic intent in terms of feel.[/quote] To a point. You can get a hell of a lot of information on to the page,and a group of good players will be able to make it come alive. Last week I did a couple of theatre gigs with an act from Las Vegas. The band (all nine of us) sight read the charts and totally nailed it in terms of groove and feel,as well as being tight as hell. So much so,that we've now been offered a good theatre tour next year. Everything that we needed was on the charts.

Being as though you've only been playing for a week,can I suggest that now is the ideal time to start associating the notes on the 'board with their position on the stave. Basically,learn to read. Also try to develop your ear by trying to learn the tunes without resorting to tablature. If you deviote just 10-20 minutes a day on each,it will come together pretty quickly.It may seem like more work now,but trust me,it will be so much more beneficial for you.

[quote name='JTUK' post='1016165' date='Nov 8 2010, 11:14 AM']The best solution would be the one that worked and they rotated bands in the studio to that end often cutting the same track with a different section.. and by the way some tracks came together would have been the result of a studio jam.. thinking about the drum track solo part in Aja here, for example..[/quote] Although,Steve Gadd actually played 'Aja' whilst reading a piano part and only did two takes-and I think it was the first one that was used.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1015808' date='Nov 7 2010, 10:11 PM']Why is that defensive? Its not me its someone else, He is not my gay lover or anything. Maybe thats a whole new thread that some people have a better knowledge of theory than they think? I think after the 3rd tongue sticking out theory thread Im going to stay out of this one and leave it to the exact same people that have already gone over it too many times already in the other 2 threads. I have not stated my personal position and Im getting grief so who is being defensive? "Unsubscribed" as they say (Or should it be transcribed?) [/quote] The reason it came across as being defensive is because in this thread no one said anything about anyone being better than anyone else until you brought it up.

[quote name='daz' post='1015715' date='Nov 7 2010, 09:03 PM']Stuart Zender reckons, that not only he cant read music, that he does not even know the notes of his fretboard.[/quote] Great........ Maybe that's one reason he's not done that much work after leaving Jamiroquai(other than his recent Ronson gig).

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1015683' date='Nov 7 2010, 08:39 PM']The guitarist in our band can play for hours on end without repeating a phrase and in different styles and scales etc and has no idea what they are called he just does it. There are plenty of folk sticking their tongue out on this forum because he isnt a reader but trust me when I say he would have planty of them licked in most situations other than a formal sight reading pit job which I can assure you he would hate with a passion. So what does all this mean? Are the readers saying he cant play the guitar? His name is Matt Thorpe (Comes up on Google) if any readers want to have a listen and tell me they can automatically outplay him just because they have theory nailed. [/quote] So........? No one said they can outplay anyone else because they know theory. Sorry,but you just seem to be getting very defensive,rather needlessly in this thread. All that's being said is that theory and groove work together.

Let's be honest-everyone makes mistakes. The trick is how you get out of it. I know that if I make a mistake,it won't happen again.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1015571' date='Nov 7 2010, 07:20 PM']it's great having the theory knowledge, but having a good sense of time, groove and discipline will always get you the gig.[/quote] Depends what the gig is.

They both work together-it's not an either/or thing. You can be grooving like mad and playing all the wrong notes,and it will sound bad. Likewise you can be playing all the right notes with no groove and it will suck. Groove,theory,feel,reading etc. shouldn't be thought of as mutually exclusive.Each one helps the other. They are all important parts of music.

I've not taken any of the exams,but I have taught upto(and including) grade 8. It won't do you any harm by going through them. You'll have to cover various scales and arpeggios which is a good thing,and then you've got the play along tracks aswell. It's actually a pretty decent course.

There's a thing like that for drummers in America,where they encourage members to hire people who also play drums. I'm not sure if it's a good idea.....if I want a plumber,I don't care if he plays or not,as long as he can fix a leak.

I'm digging Janeks new album 'The Space In Between' right now. It's great.

I've had an MTD Heir for about 5 years now,and all I can say is that they are great basses. I've played a couple of Laklands and again,they are great basses. You'll really have to check them both out. I saw an MTD Heir on eBay the other day for well under your budget.