Coilte

While there is no doubt that scales are important, chords and chord tones are as, if not more important to know. Ninety percent of the time it is CHORDS as apart from scales that a bassist will play. Below is a great site, and here it deals with chord tones. http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/chord-tones-are-primary/

Many Happy Returns to all on Bass Chat !!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1325022067' post='1479260'] Notice how most renowned groove orientated players..as opposed to soloists.. tend to have that closed grip. [/quote] Agreed. He seems to break all the "rules" for L/H technique doesn't he ? Like Jack Bruce, who has a similar fretting style, I think it is because they come from a time when there was not such an emphasis on technique. His R/H technique is unusual too. Regardless of all that, he is a legend. His work with "Steely Dan" is amazing. He gave us all a scare a while back when he suffered a stroke, but I think he is on the mend now.

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1324892399' post='1478242'] I'd politely disagree with a lot of these, they're just a tad advanced for a beginner although are great to listen to.[/quote] I agree with this. As well as the Ed Friedland "Building Walking Basslines" already mentioned, this book (see link below) is also great for getting you off to a good start with jazz. It comes with a cd containing the exercises, and also has some standards to play along to. You can isolate the bass if you wish, or on the other channel have just drums and piano and provide the bass lines yourself. A good investment IMO. [url="http://www.amazon.com/Mel-Walking-Jazz-Lines-Bass/dp/0786659963"]http://www.amazon.com/Mel-Walking-Jazz-Lines-Bass/dp/0786659963[/url]

You could try not resting the thumb on any string, but let it "float" as in the "Floating Thumb Technique". It is perfect, especially for five and six string basses. Todd Johnson demonstrates it here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU

[quote name='Immo' timestamp='1324747839' post='1477588'] I believe that even the worst player will become able to play properly when having another person playing next to him. Spontaneous improvisation will ensue. It's like '[i]Hey, this time I managed to play well for entire 4 seconds and it sounded pretty cool! I gotta try harder and repeat that![/i]' [/quote] Yeah, I see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure if I entirely agree. Yes, jamming with others is a great way to improve. However, IMO, jamming with others should be a time for trying out what you have learned at home practicing. If you have not done your home work, in some cases jamming can be frustrating.

I think it all boils down to the fact that if a person really loves a certain instrument, and learning to play music, then they wont need discipline to practice. If you go about it with the right attitude, learning can be fun.

[quote name='Immo' timestamp='1324744980' post='1477550'] Nay, I think more of a good buddy to improvise with. That will be fun, not a compulsion. C'mon, let's keep a little optimism in here! It's Christmas! [/quote][quote name='Immo' timestamp='1324744980' post='1477550'] Nay, I think more of a good buddy to improvise with. [/quote] How is the OP going to be able to improvise, if he does not knuckle down to some serious practicing ???

First, I'd say that you are not alone in spending more time than you should on forums. As others have said, you need to be inspired to pick up the bass. When you do actually sit down to practice, how you go about it and how that precious time is spent, can be important. If your practice is structured (i.e. starting with the basics and building step by step on the information gleaned from the previous lesson)it can go a long way towards being inspired, as you will begin to see progress. This will make you want to keep plugging away at it. "Muddling my way through something like the "Trooper" is not practice, in the true sense of the word. A half an hour of structured practice is better than three hours of idle noodling. If you can spend a grand on a bass rig, then a few bob spent on some lessons would be a good investment. A good teacher can not only provide a structured practice schedule, but also the inspiration that you seem to require.

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1324334407' post='1473249'] cheers for the advice guys I have tried the floating thumb, and I just can't get on with it, it's not comfortable. I have a compromise of using the movable anchor technique, where I move my thumb onto the string below the one i'm playing. (I.e. rest the thumb on the E when i play the A etc.) I dunno why, but it has always felt so much more natural to let my fingers hang like in the video, tucking them into my palm always feels forced and odd. [/quote] The technique used is entirely up to each individual. One technique may not suit all. The golden "rule" however, is to keep both wrists as straight as possible. Do what is comfortable, natural and [b]safe. [/b] Also, dont forget that it was [b]you [/b]that asked for advice in the first place. Out of curiosity, how long did you spend trying the floating thumb ? Two weeks ? It can take that amount of time and maybe more to get comfortable with it.

As others have said, I keep my ring and pinkie fingers tucked in towards the palm, where they are out of the way. I'd recommend that you practice alternating your index and middle fingers. Practice VERY SLOWLY at first, paying close attention to keeping the ring and pinkie relaxed and tucked in towards the palm. Spend five to ten minutes doing this exercise as part of your practice routine. At first, your ring and pinkie fingers probably wont do what you want, but with a little time, patience and perseverance they will learn what is expected of them. While we are on the subject of R/H technique, I hope you dont mind my giving you some extra advice. I notice that you rest your thumb on the pick up. Granted, a lot of bassists do so, but it can lead to wrist or hand problems at a later time, because the wrist is at an awkward angle. You may like to check out the link below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEC8nqT6Rrk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEC8nqT6Rrk[/url]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1324142300' post='1471268'] Simple answer is you use what's right for the song. [/quote] +1. The more sonic "tools" you have at your disposal the better.

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1323739729' post='1466528'] PS: Does anyone know if there Is anywhere in the UK you can buy [i]Fret Doctor[/i], so you dont have to pay mad post charges for something the size of a half eaten pack of Polo mints ? [/quote] I got mine from the site I linked earlier. Cant remember the all in price, but I know it was reasonable, and with the minimal amount I use, it should last for years. Email them and ask for a shipping price.

"Standing in the Shadows of Motown" is a great read. Comes with a CD and transcriptions too, so after you have read the book, you have the option of trying out some of Jamerson's lines. http://www.amazon.com/Standing-Shadows-Motown-Legendary-Jamerson/dp/0881888826 Another book I enjoyed was Jack Bruce's biography "Composing Himself". http://www.amazon.com/Bruce-Composing-Himself-Harry-Shapiro/dp/1906002266

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1323516655' post='1464071'] oiling fretboards a few years back & there's a split on using lemon oil). [/quote] Yes, I have noticed that. On the [b]very[/b] rare occasions that I do oil my FB, I use "Fret Doctor". [url="http://www.beafifer.com/boredoctor.htm"]http://www.beafifer.com/boredoctor.htm[/url]

If people washed their hands each time before picking up the bass, it would reduce drastically, the need for fret cleaning in the first place, not to mention prolonging string life. I have often seen guitarists and bassists pick up their instrument with hands that looked like they had just come from changing the engine in a car. All I ever need for FB cleaning is a moist cloth and a quick rub when changing strings. Also, oiling (regardless of what you use) should be kept to a minimum, as over oiling can be as bad as none at all. I oil my FB around every eighteen months or two years. Still looks great.

[quote name='citymariner' timestamp='1323004164' post='1458111'] Got to admit in trying to keep things similar yet having something slightly different [/quote] In that case, you cant go far wrong with the G&L Tribute SB2. [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=G%26L+SB2+tribute&_sacat=See-All-Categories"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=G%26L+SB2+tribute&_sacat=See-All-Categories[/url]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1321904899' post='1444330'] Does anyone have any good exercises/videos/suggestions for floating thumb [/quote] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU[/url]

I bought two bass on line from abroad, one on E Bay and one from Talk Bass. No problems with either. Make sure to check the feed back for a potential seller, and to factor in the shipping cost and possible import duties in the over all price. I find Pay Pal useful in case anything goes wrong. At least you have some sort of come back.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1322750976' post='1455370'] I think Gary Willis is a marvelous bass teacher with a lot of informative stuff to say, but I wish he'd inject his teaching with a bit more in the way of life! [/quote] I agree about his skills of conveying knowledge. What he does convey makes a lot of practical sense though, IMO.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1322750174' post='1455344'] I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said here. But these gadgets aren't isolation exercises, i.e. they're not singularly working on one thing (the big hang up here being grip). They are by their very nature they are making you perform compound exercise, or in other words you're working out more than just one thing at a time. Low resistance work outs and high repetition on an irregular basis will not see improved muscle mass, that's not how muscle building works, so it is a theory that can be discounted if you're using such a device in the correct manner. I'm yet to come across anyone who has developed high muscle mass from singularly using a grip master either. I do strongly believe that good technique should be achievable without the use of something like a grip-master, or indeed any other gadget that is marketed as such. But I would say that the times in which I have used them, they have gone at least some way in getting my hands 'motivated' to work for lack of a better term But I suspect we shan't agree. I respect your opinion though, and that of Gary Willis's, even if his video was starting to put me asleep! [/quote] Good to know we have found some common ground. We will indeed have to agree to disagree about the gripping devices. BTW, you were only supposed to look at the first minute of the Gary Willis clip !!

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1322740922' post='1455098'] With respect, I do believe you're missing the point. These things don't have to dictate grip at all. If these grippy contraptions are getting blood pumping to the muscles in the hands, which they inevitably will be, then it is one step closer to having hands that will perform to a higher level after periods of little to no bass playing activity. Used in conjunction with more regular styles of warming up, I don't see the harm in using them. I wouldn't recommend them to beginner bass players. The adjustability of them does make a difference and shouldn't be discounted... I would agree that using them on maximum resistance would be a fruitless endeavour, comparable to your suggestion before of a runner training with high weights and low rep. [/quote] These grip devices, by their very name involve gripping. They are designed to develop gripping strength primarily. There is no getting away from that fact. Otherwise they might be called warm up gadgets. This repeated gripping and releasing is what gets the blood pumping, like you say. In the process you are building up strength that is not required. This unwanted strength could make the hand muscle bound, if the gadget was over used, and could in fact inhibit playing, much like our friend the weight lifter trying to do gymnastics or run a hundred meters. IMO, gentle stretching of the fingers and wrists, followed by slow deliberate exercises ( musical or otherwise) on the bass itself, is all that is needed to warm up. Five to ten minutes is all it takes. To the other posters who constantly keep mentioning hand strength with regards to bass playing, I suggest you try this little experiment. Without your thumb on the back of the neck, gently apply some pressure on the string until the note sounds clearly. You will see just how little is the amount of strength required. Stamina and dexterity on the other hand ( pun intended ) are a different thing altogether. It is these latter two, that dictate how long you can play for, how well you get around the neck, and how fast... [b]not [/b]strength.

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1322736504' post='1454982'] do you need 'more strength' in your fretting hand? [/quote] This is the key question in the whole "gripping devices" debate. IMO you dont. Gary Willis touches on this, in the first minute of this clip. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJlE5qNc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJlE5qNc[/url]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1322735515' post='1454966'] The heavy weightlifting thing doesn't quite add up because most of these grip masters are adjustable in this respect. And I would agree that using a grip machine this way would soon become a totally redundant exercise and a waste of time. But you don't have to be exerting your full energy into using them, they are adjustable. I don't think there are any substitutes for having both good technique and a good warmup regime, but I see no reason to use other means of warming up your hands rather than just playing scales etc. if the results translate. [/quote] OK. Leaving aside the device itself for a moment, let us talk about "grip" and how it relates ( or more to the point..does [b]not[/b] ) to bass playing. You, as a seasoned experienced bassist will know that a key aspect to good technique is keeping both hands relaxed. Beginners often make the mistake of holding the neck of the bass in a death grip. This not only hampers their playing, but can possibly lead to physical problems later on. The advice always given by teachers is to always have both hands as relaxed as possible. With all this in mind, maybe you could explain the benefits from a bass playing aspect, of building up gripping strength, regardless of whether the gripping device is adjustable or not.