Bilbo

I just lifted this of Jeff berlin's MySpace page. I think he talks a lot of sense. 'Scott Thunes is best known as the bass player for Frank Zappa. He is also a teacher of MUSIC, not just instrument. Here is a couple of quotes from him from his comments in the April 2009 Bass Player magazine. Scott said, "I swear, I lost every adult student I ever had because I forced them to read music before I'd even think about teaching them that funky sh*t on the bass." He further said, "Who are these kids that just want to pick up an instrument and play? I never got that! An instrument was always an excuse to be a part of music, not an end in itself. If you don't understand music, then what's the point?" The man is right! I have to confess that I too, can't figure out why people decide to buy an instrument and then don't do the work to make it speak. Kids may protest doing things they have to do. But grown up adults? Here' some truth. Philosophies about how to play, when to play, what to play, are nonsense if there isn't any substance behind these musical decisions. Playing principles are crazy if the players themselves don’t have the musical tools to play. Even non-reading musicians who function in a musical style have learned their styles through constant playing, constant investigation of music, even if it wasn’t from lessons from a music teacher. Only players who don't know music, who don't spend time on their instrument, and who don't function in a musical style with any authenticity come up with questions and problems in playing. Period! I have said a million times that learning music solves all things. It does! The only lessons that you should pay for in my opinion is a lesson in content. This idea works in every single classroom situation in every single principle to be learned all over the world. Why don’t people in music understand this? Scott Thunes has found out that an awful lot of players don't do the work they are supposed to, that they are expected to do without compromise or lamenting the work that is there in front of them to do. It is their responsibility to work at their chosen craft, else, why choose it in the first place? This is what Scott and me to for that matter, can’t figure out? Why own a guitar if you don’t intend to produce music from it? If you don't learn music, you will not improve as a player. Sorry, it ain't my rules. God long ago laid out the plan for Mankind to work hard at their chosen craft if they wished to improve in it. Philosphy of playing is a humbug because philosophy cannot be used to coax music from you if you do not have the music to coax. Therefore, I say with no hesitation, if you love music, then work for it by only studying real, eternal, irrefutable, long standing musical facts and information on your instruments. Play gigs, but never pay money for gig lessons. If music is not the central core of any lesson that you are studying, then it is most likely a bogus lesson or philosophy , something that looks good on paper, but, guaranteed to fall short when directly applied to one's instrument. If 100% of all the great players in history got their skills through proven, undeniable methods and approaches to playing, then why does anybody need to change the rules? They work and they work perfectly. If it ain't broke.......... But, Scott Thunes has found a whole generation of guys who are so mis-led about how to become better players that it galls him that he has the right tools to help people and they won’t take them from him. As Rhett Butler said to Scarlett, "You are throwing away happiness with both hands and you don't even know it!" I have lost interest in JB's music but these philosophies are pretty much in tune with my own.

Good luck - Green Tea is a favourite!

Freelance - loads of jazz, bit of funk, increasing amount of Latin, 3 function bands, anything else that comes up.

Great post, Mikey. It all makes perfect sense.

I always used to do just that i.e. R 3 5 7 9 11 13. The technique requires you to move your hands quickly and accurately (and, if you play fretless, VERY accurately) and, for me, contributes a lot in terms of learning the geography of the neck.

[quote name='lowdown' post='430465' date='Mar 10 2009, 01:33 PM']Hey Bilbo, funny you should mention that.. I just got the Samual Adler stuff a few days ago - good stuff [ with audio eg's ] Garry[/quote] Its great, isn't it? Did you get the workbook?

[quote name='chris_b' post='430414' date='Mar 10 2009, 12:59 PM']They found that the music contained so many mistakes that they threw the books away and had to go back and relearn the numbers from the records.[/quote] The trouble is that, in the industry, a lot of these books are written by people who know piano and not necessarily people who know the full range of instruments and techniques used to execute them. If you look at books like Samuel Adler's 'Orchestration', they talk about all of the instruments and how to write for them (ranges, styles, techniques etc). So, when someone like John Williams writes for an orchestra, he is expected to cover all bases before any musicians get anywhere near the charts. The books you get for Popular Music are often done by piano players who are not actually that interesetd in the music they are transcribing, are on small budgets and short deadlines. So they kind of 'cobble' stuff together on until the product is 'good enough' and then let it out. They are not professional standard (i.e. proper arrangements) but 'have a go around the piano in the parlour' kind of thing. In my experience, good transcriptions are like gold dust. They are shared through good intentions mostly with a health warning (my version of etc).

Sorry: I'm from Walles....

Try two PZMz stuck to the walles on the sides of the room. ITs not studio quality but it has always worked for me. [url="http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/microphones/pzm.html"]http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/microphones/pzm.html[/url]

[quote name='AM1' post='429830' date='Mar 9 2009, 09:07 PM']Interesting point - I have now seen quite a few bass players (some of whom have been playing a really long time) whom are technically very good, but there is absolutely NO "feeling" to their playing and they have poor phrasing. To me, it's ALL about phrasing - it is intrinsically linked with "feel" i.e. groove. But there is a dichotomy in that it can be difficult to replicate "groove" from notation....[/quote] Agreed but have you ever listened to a classical piece and read the score alongside it? A player could NOT play the piece from dots alone unless s/he had a thorough grounding in the genre and knew, in a broad brush sense, what it is supposed to sound like. So, if a bass player is reading a funk line, he needs to know what 'funk' sounds like to make the music happen. Its no different.

[quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='429592' date='Mar 9 2009, 05:57 PM']...he will possibly send me hate mail for saying this but everytime I look at bilbos avatar, I think `Dave Lee Travis' ..with carrots![/quote] I always liked Dave Lee Travis and think his very public and courageous resignation from Radio One was one of the most high-profile criticisms of the threats of corporate media ever. DLT rocks (although any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental)

I have played a Wal (4string Custom Fretless) pretty much exclusively now for 23 years (in two weeks time ) and it delivers what I want every time. There are a couple of points I would make in defence of these great basses. I find that they allow you to be you; every Wal player I have heard sounds different. A 'Wal' sound is, for me, the sound of the player and not necessarily the instrument. A lot of basses sound like, for instance, a Fender, an Alembic, a Warwick etc (I have not played any of these for more than a few minutes in total so do treat my opinions with a pinch of salt) and they all sound like the manufacturer intended. My Wal, on the other hand, sounds like me (see my 'Wal Street Crash' mp3 posted here). I have played it through lots of different amps (SWR, Eden, GK, Trace Eliot, Frunt) and it always does what I want it to - if there is anything missing, it is me not the bass. As for slap; I don't so why would I care I would point out that I am a great believer in loyalty and intimacy with an instrument and, above a basic manufacturing standard, my perspective is to work with the bass to find your sound and not to expect it to 'deliver' something when you pick it up for the first time. For the record, I tried 3 Wals out before I bought mine (25th April 1986) and was so impressed with the consistency that I bought my current bass by mail order (I did the same with my Gibson ES175 and Takamine CD132SC) with no regrets. Other basses have come and gone but they never got anywhere near the airing that the Wal did and I can now honestly say that I haven't gigged with anything but the Wal for years. I also have no real urge to replace it (other than with a 5-string Wal). People are generally very complimentary about my sound at gigs etc and that is with jazz, funk and Latin outifts so versatility is also a plus. I love them. And, as for looks, have you seen my avatar?

I know Andy Crowdy and Phil Berry (they have both depped for me and vice versa) - both great players. Say hi from me when you see them.

Now I get it! I'm too tall!!

Janek Gwizdala?

I had seen one of those Trip videos before but not anything like that which you describe. If you find a video of it on YouTube,let me know!

Define 'great'. To be frank, they never held my attention for very long. I don't dislike The Police, I just don't like them enough to consider spending any time listening to them. I can enjoy a track or two but that's about it but, as for great, no, not really. But that's just me.

See, I told you to learn to read.... In my experience. reading ability is a braod church. A lot of jazz bassists can read chord charts and then odd bits of notation but are not 100% on a full written chart. I have had gigs, including shows, where its dots all the way and I have always managed without too many problems ('Who Will Buy' from Oliver is one killer I remember) but I would probably struggle with anything too demanding today as I haven't seen a full chart for years (except the ones I have written). It is a bit like riding a bike and you do get back into it quite quickly even after a gap but its down to the gig and how complex the charts are. Reading at a session where they are paying £400 an hour for studio time is a different thing to playing in a local big band for free. Personally, I think its a skill every professional should nurture for the reasons Adam highlights. PS I know its easier to say that do but isn't everything. No easy route to it, just repetition

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='426020' date='Mar 5 2009, 12:12 PM']I'm in four bands now and I'm turning down offers all the time... because apparently, my missus would like to see me in the evenings and have coversations and stuff. [/quote] Selfish cow! I have NO doubt that I could triple the number of gigs I have if I played double bass but its too late for me. If any of you are thinking of turning pro, the double bass is the way to go. If you can nail it and play good time, you will work. Electric bass still gets a bad rap in jazz but I can't really complain as I am out as much as I probably can cope with with a day job and a dicky ticker. I also like other aspects of music (composition, recording etc) which accepting too many gigs can get in the way of. But, what I can say is that, as a bass player, I work as much as most of the people I know and a lot more than many of them.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='425241' date='Mar 4 2009, 04:21 PM']I'm gonna check this out when I get in, and if it's a waste of my time, I'm driving to suffolk to bum you.[/quote] Don't listen to it, FFS!!!!!

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='425101' date='Mar 4 2009, 02:21 PM']Nice. Reminds me of Percy Jones' bass on Brand X "Products".[/quote] That was kind of what I was hearing too. PJ was an early influence but we are talking 25 years ago and I haven't heard Brand X in 2 decades. I guess, it being a Wal Custom Fretless, it was his (or John Giblin's) bass!! For the record, I have not heard Trip Wamsley. I will look him up tonight (only limited internet access at work).

Just a bit of fun. I was playing about with my Wal in Cubase, got to overdubbing and came up with this piece of nonsense. Two minutes of random noodling [attachment=21404:Wal_Street_Crash.mp3]

Don't know how that happened

I saw a nice 7-string bass player on YouTube the other day, playing a nice, harmonically sophisticated piece. I watched the whole thing thinking I might have found something played on an ERB that would justify the E bit! I was disappointed as the plyer, who was clearly competent and knew his harmony, played the whole thing on the top four strings (DGCE). By my reckoning, he could have easily done it on a conventional guitar with minimal discernable difference. The problem is that, whilst he would undoubtedly turn heads as a 7-string bass player (lots of WOW factor), as a guitar player, he was merely ok. So, what's the motivation?

I read this when it came out and agree it is an interesting perspective on what being a musician (as opposed to a celebrity) is really about.