Bilbo

Some marvellous recommendations for Big Band listening: Bob Mintzer – Camoflague Duke Ellington – And His Mother Called Him Bill Kenny Wheeler –Music For Large And Small Ensemble Dave Holland – Overtime Dave Murray Latin Big Band – Now Is Another Time Dave Grusin – West Side Story Loose Tubes – Delightful Precipice Miles Davis/Gil Evans – Miles Ahead Count Basie – w. Manhattan Transfer - Vocalese Mingus Big Band – Live In Time Michel Camilo – One More Once Anyone got any more?

Wouldn't that be 'Third Time Lucky'? Break a leg!

Being a musician attracts a wide variety of individuals and the agendas of each of them is different. Wayne Shorter took up the saxophone because it was shiny, others did it because it got them girls. Some people are attracted to the romantic idea that they are an 'artist' (I know I am) and, like the artist/musicians they read about, they like (need?) to think of themselves as 'uncompromising' and project themselves accordingly. Their self image is an essential part of who they are and they need to maintain that at all costs (its a common human trait). So, given the scenarios we are talking about, it is inevitable that some people are going to be in a 'bad space'. Some can't wait to gig because they want to be seen and so are out there before they are gig ready. Some never want to gig because they are so frightened of failure that the rehearsals are never good enough for them to acknowledge that the band is ready to take that next step. The glamour of this industry, in all its complex forms, is what keeps it going but it is also what creates the problems you are describing. It is people politics and it is not just confined to bands. You 'just want to play'. Others may want to play well; others to play to a level of excellence that is all but unattainable. Some just like the social aspect of being in a band and 'talk a good gig' others will always be there, on time and ready to play. Like all groups of people, the human dynamics are profound and need careful managing. Lots of egos in a room each pushing their own agendas will always lead to friction of some sort but this needs to be (and can be) managed if you are able to stand back and figure out what motivates people, individually and collectively (you would be amazed at how many people are afraid of success). Its about learning to compromise and about finding ways to disagree without being disagreeable. Politics, as it is being described here, is an inevitable part of working with groups of people. I think 'human dynamics' covers it better as 'politics' implies something machiavellian and none of this is about manipulation.

Sorry Bremen. All that power wen to my head....

I have a Status Energy 6 string and hate it - it sounds all electrical and stuff. But, basswise, it would appear that I am a one bass man so that Status just hangs there gathering dust. As for slapping it, the way it plays, I'm just as likely to kick its head in....

Good work, SteveO, although I would recommend people look at other Bach pieces - this one has been played to death by players the world over

Made me angry. Heard most of it before but the bit I got annoyed at was the fact that we had a long interview with Charlie Haden, stories about Eugene Wright (who?) and the usual 'wasn't Mingus angry' anecdotes but, again, no memtion of Paul Chambers. Same old, same old.

He used to go over to a young Paul Chambers' house and give him lessons. He da man!

Don't learn improvisation/soloing from bass players. Try other instruments; sax, trumpet, trombone (good for similar range) piano (guitar is another one to avoid becuase it is sometimes too pattern oritenated andsimilar to bass. As for jazz, don't try to learn it. Its for real men who can grow facial hair.

I am perfectly happy with Cubase so go for it. A lot of the trouble you are experieincing is very common - its all about the technology. I found that an interface prolbem I had was around the ISO drivers. Like I knoew what and ISO driver was. I didn't know what an ISO was, never mind how to drive it (can you drive it on a standard licence?). Find someone local that knows about this stuff. Most people will help if they can. I got a techy piano player friend to tell me what to do.

I am so envious of you guys. I tried, I hurt, I moved on. My left hand still gives me trouble 6 years on and I have real trouble when my left hand is higher than my shoulder, which it would be a lot on most DB gigs (even to the point that, when I tune my Wal, I have to rest my arm between tuning the E & A strings because the muscles just can't hold that position for too long). So I try to may my electric do a similar job. I do ok but I really wish I could sound like Marc Johnson!

[quote name='griffonite' post='438294' date='Mar 18 2009, 02:32 PM']Mind you it's hard to tell but you look like a fairly well built bloke compared to me![/quote] Six Foot One and 16 stone. I guess its all relative

[quote name='XB26354' post='438202' date='Mar 18 2009, 12:51 PM']Oh and his solo albums are pretty awful musically [/quote] They have their moments and there are some very interesting things happening bass-wise but, as profound musical statements, they are not particularly successful.

[quote name='griffonite' post='437614' date='Mar 17 2009, 05:49 PM']I recently bought a 1980 Aria S.B 1000 for £400 and it is every bit the equal of a Wal in quality[/quote] Having owned both, I am astonished by that remark.... are you sure your Wals have been real ones? Also, mine is not and never has been a 'neck diver' and I am again intrigued at the experiences being discussed. Maybe mine is the forgery I also don't find it excessively heavy - but then again, it has been around my neck for 23 years so I guess I am used to it now.

[quote name='The Funk' post='437923' date='Mar 18 2009, 12:20 AM']Absolutely. If he ever wonders why he's not more in demand, those might be two of the answers. If he ever wonders why Tal Wilkenfraud gets better gigs than he does, again, that might be two of the answers. At least she looks like she's enjoying herself, goofy as she looks.[/quote] JB has always struggled with that aspect of music around musicality. He is a tech-head and, despite his protestations to the contrary, he still thinks that it is all about technique. His abilities to play the bass chordally are exceptional but he doesn't get that the sound of a bass playing chords is commercially unpopular - in short, it really only appeals to other bass tech-heads who can point at him and go wow. His efforts to try and get himself w gig playing his chordal bass thing with Bonnie Riatt or Norah Jones show a lack of insight. If he believes that the sound of a bass playing chords and counter-melodies is attractive, then his integrity is admirable but I can't help feeling that his apparent inability to see the musical whole is his undoing. Objectively, his bass playing is not actually a particulalry attractive (i.e. pretty) sound and its addition to a Norah Jones track wouldn't enhance it. If Norah Jones poducers want chords, there are a million credible guitar players that will do the job better than JB and make a positive difference to the product. I have always wondered, if he is so set upon getting his bass onto songs like Riatt's et al, why he doesn't do a CD of music that features a vocalist instead of a string of gunslinging jazzers. But keeps on reeling out these bass-orientated fusion fests. He complains about producers not taking risks and yet fails to take those risks on teh cds he produces. I have only seen one Tal video and she is, frankly, more in the pocket than JB. Why would't she gig more? And yes, his image does militate against his commercial ambitions (as does mine - my audition for Take That resulted in a provisional offer of the gig but, as I refused to shave my beard off, they moved on - curses, foiled again!).

[quote name='BlackElan' post='437064' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:44 AM']Mine is a exact replica of the Elan Jason Newsted used during the Damaged Justice tour with Metallica in 89. If you have any questions about Newsted's Alembics please ask I have spoke with Alembic employees and reviewed enough hours of footage to know every last spec of each of his Alembics. I also have a very impressive collection of Aria Super Basses since I am a big Cliff Burton fan. I have quite a few original Black N Gold basses and a black SB1000 all original not reissues. Any questions about Cliff's Arias I can probably help.[/quote] 'Study Music not Musicians' - Lincoln Goines Welcome, Jason.

[quote name='Eight' post='437293' date='Mar 17 2009, 02:09 PM']If you play a fretted bass, then your instrument is based on the half-baked ideas they came up with.[/quote] I agree!!!

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='437280' date='Mar 17 2009, 01:59 PM']Most people aren't awesome like us, though, Bilbo. [/quote] Are they not? That's cos they aren't from Cwmbran (its the positive energy from the town centre tower block and the great seat of learning that is Croesyceiliog Comprehensive)

Or are waiting for the bass talent pixie to wave his (or her) dust in their direction! Yeeeay, the pixie! I actually don't get that working at music and fun are mutually exclusive. If fun is a manifestation of satisfaction, I get loads of it out of study. If I spent any time playing 'Guitar Hero', I would consider it to be wasted time and feel (mildly)frustrated, angry etc. So 'fun' for me and for many others is not to be found in frivolous nonsense but in focussed and rewarding activities. I have fun whilst I do things, I don't do things to have fun.

[quote name='Rich' post='437020' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:06 AM']Well, I believe I'm right in thinking that neither Mick Karn nor Pino Palladino can read a single note. This being the case, Mr.Berlin can take his view and cram it sideways.[/quote] Great as they both are, they are actually quite limited as players (as, ironically, is Jeff Berlin). I think the quantifiable 'success' of certain named individuals is no indicator of the best route to take. It is no more sensible than using blind chance as a justification of the validity of choosing to take the wrong route to get to your chosen destination because others have found it by chance. Relying on the good fortune of others to inform your decisions on how to best manage your own career seems a fools errand to me.

The probelm I have with many of the critics of this kind of learning is that many of them are missing a trick. Some of the techniques that are used by some of the bass stuntmen we all love to hate take a lot of time and energy to develop - in some cases years of dedicated practice. I think JBs (and others) point is that some of this energy and TIME should be redirected into concerted practice of the established tools of music and not running up dead ends. Learning a zillion individual licks probably takes just as long as learning the basic facts about music theory and learning to read dots. I think that there are a lot of players out there who WANT to learn how to play but, without good teachers, are wasting time, sometimes years, chasing the wrong things - not in a subjective sense but in an objective one. Learning to execute a Simpsons/Super Mario Brothers theme with two hands is a great party trick but surely that time could be better spent learning something that can be applied in a myriad of contexts and developing a marketable skill. As I recall, JBs biggest criticisms are levelled at those schools/dvds etc that 'teach' two handed tapping, double thumbing etc. If you look around you at the world of bass playing, these skills really are novelty tricks and of limited value in a practical sense. Its this that I agree with. If I had my time again, I would not have wasted as much time learning stuff that didn't matter. I consider it an obligation to share that insight and to say to young people, don't do what I did, use your time more wisely and be better than me.

[quote name='KevB' post='436343' date='Mar 16 2009, 05:31 PM']Are they rated as jazz or fusion or what and are they considered good by the proper jazz officianados? just mildly curious.[/quote] Jazz Rock or Fusion? Doesn't really matter. Jazz fans tend to see this stuff as marmite. I went through a phase where I was impressed but I was on my way somewhere and hadn't arrived yet. I still really like the first 2 RTF lps but the later stuff felt over arranged. But it has to be seen as a product of its time and it was a really creative era for fusion, before it got all blanded out by Sanborn and Kenny G.

Unbelievable - I was listening to that not 4 hours ago. It is a great CD. Have your heard Metheny's 'Map Of THe World'. No bass at all but its absolutely marvellous.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='436186' date='Mar 16 2009, 03:16 PM']What about the countless people who are happy blindly fumbling around in their bedrooms just for the fun of it?[/quote] If I wasn't a grown-up......

Wish you were right but watch this space!!