Bilbo

[quote name='jakesbass' post='516499' date='Jun 17 2009, 03:22 PM']Lines should be melodic and have a natural inner sense of phrasing to rise and fall through the changes small variations of not choices make a huge difference.[/quote] 100% - the logic of the line is profoundly important and, whilst I agree there is a huge element of the subconcious involved (particularly at 260 bpm ), that subconcious is informed by the 1,000s of lines you have previously developed consciously or otherwise. Its like any language, you start by learning the constituent parts and then, eventually, you become comfortable enough to forget them. The equivalent in bass lines would be the strong beat/weak beat issue (e.g. play roots, thirds and fifths on strong beats 1 & 3 and seconds and fourths on weak beat 2 & 4 - a useful 'rule' in teh beginning but not cast in concrete and eminently forgetable as you get more involved in the work of walking). Fundamentally, you will learn a lot from just playing and listening to transcriptions like those attached above and then just doing it - a million choruses of trial and error. Be patient, it will come.

What is the purpose of walking bass lines and what constitutes good taste? Walking bass lines have the same purposes as any bass line and there are more than one. Firstly, the line underpins the harmonic movement of the chords under which it is placed and can literally define that harmonic movement (Steve Kahn always says that, when he presents a tune to his bass player, Anthony Jackson, Jackson’s lines reharmonise his work and make it sound better and more sophisticated). Secondly, a walking line contributes to creating the illusion of momentum – there are some great examples on some of the Miles Davis/Gil Evans material where the only movement that is happening is the walking bass line of Paul Chambers. Without it, the music would be sedentary chords, like an organist holding a chord down without any changes. The walking lines can actually control the pace, pull back on it, push it, and even stop it, all contributing to the ebb and flow of tension and release that makes music, well, musical. The relationship between a bass line, ride cymbal and piano accompaniment is the defining characteristic of a rhythm section. Listen to Paul Chambers, Jimmy Cobb and Wynton Kelly or Chambers, Red Garland and Philly Joe Jones. Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Tony Williams are another great section. All very different despite the main thrust of the bass parts being only straight quarter notes. The walking lines also create a counterpoint to the soloist. The magic of a great walking line comes from its relationship with the soloists. A big mistake that people make (and this teacher guy with the ’pentatonics’ quip is clearly a victim of this) is assuming that, as long as it is in the scale/arpeggio of the pertinent chord, it will be ok. WRONG – it will only work if the logic of the line before and after it are congruent with the overall mood of the piece. That logic is created from moment to moment by the music being played by the musicians around you. If the pianist plays X, you have to make a choice as to what you do next. Whether that choice is ‘good taste’ is arguably a matter for you but there are good things to do and bad. Hitting a root note on the fourth beat of a bar may, for instance, prematurely project a change –this can be good or bad – it’s all about INTENTION. If you are just thrashing about ‘in the right key’, it will sound like it (a great example of how bad this can get is Van Morrison’s ‘Moondance’, objectively and subjectively a dreadful piece of walking bass). What we have here is a superb example of something that takes a moment to learn and a lifetime to master. Playing four quarter-notes to a bar is something that, in principle, we can all do on day one of picking up a bass. Trying to develop the ability to creating a congruent, musical, creative, grooving walking bass line will never cease to delight and frustrate in equal measure. I have been trying to do it since 1986 and sometimes, quite often in fact, I feel like a total beginner. For the record, a LOT of the swing feel that you are trying to get in a walking bass line comes from your SOUND and its relationship with the drummers ride cymbal and pianist’s voicings and rhythmic placement of chords. Don’t expect it to sound great with a bad sound, a crap drummer and a cheap electric piano! When the chemistry is right, the notes are so much easier to find!

[quote name='hatori' post='514028' date='Jun 15 2009, 12:00 PM']Hopefuly heres one.[/quote] Isn't that Uncle Fester and Gomez Adams? Waiting for a light bulb moment?

[quote name='silddx' post='514009' date='Jun 15 2009, 11:44 AM']That's not a jazz attitude, Bilbo! [/quote] Actually it is..... Or at least you should SAY it, even if you don't believe it!

Play the GROOVES; don't try and put anything clever in that will only increase your anxiety, increase the likelihood that you will fall on your arse and that you will reveal your shortcomings. Find the pocket and stay there, enjoy the groove. That's what the audience wants and the rest of teh band are the audience this time. Say things like 'its my job to make the singer look good, nothing more and nothing less'; 'if the punters notice me, I am probably not doing my job properly'...

What do you need a tuner for?

You can only come in if you like Jazz. The rock and pop sections are full

[quote name='lowdown' post='505488' date='Jun 4 2009, 02:32 PM']They aint finished yet. You know how those bop solos go on for ever and ever.... Garry[/quote] Flippancy aside, that is actually not true. If you go back to the origins of be-bop, most Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker solos were one, two or, less common, a maximum of 3 choruses long. The epic solos of John Coltrane came much later in modal and free jazz both of which came out of be-bop but are not, in fact, the same thing. Be-bop solos only sound long becasue most music nowadays doesn't contain any soloing as the industry has deemed any form of soloing to be 'self indulgent'. Unlike adolescent poetry about getting the elbow set to music which is, of course, art.

That was pretty cool, Adam. My only criticism, and I mean this to be constructive, is that the piece if about 3 minutes too long! Any producer worth his salt would edit that back to about 4.00 and fade after the change in the feel of the drum part - there is a lift there that sould start the lead out on a high. After that, there is nothing to maintain the listeners interest. I love the opening groove, though.

I got my fretless Wal in 1986 and have loved it ever since! It makes so much sense to me to find a bass that does it for you and then work on the music. GAS is a great way of kidding yourself that the problems with your playing are with your gear not with your competences as a player. I hope you and your 5 have a long and fruitful relationship. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21583&hl=wal+custom+fretless"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...custom+fretless[/url]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='507139' date='Jun 6 2009, 06:25 PM']Lovely part that Bilbo. Reading semiquavers at that tempo is very good practice, I guess those classical guys see those phrases as sentences, I'm afraid I'm not that disciplined and have to go through those passages slowly. Thanks for the transcription mate. Jake[/quote] I can pretty much read that one cold but that is because I know the piece well so I am only reallly reading the notes notthen rhythms;does that make sense? I will try and do the other movements when I get a chance.

This is the first movement from the Bach Double Violin Concerto in D minor transcribed for bass guitar. I had to redraft the chart to fit a four string bass (there were a couple of low Ds and low As that had to move) but it still sounds cool - just like a proper bass part A great reading exercise, a great line and,if you haven't heard it, a great introduction to Bach. This embedded YouTube video is not great but it is chosen because the bass part can be heard quite clearly (sometimes it is lost in the chaos!!) so, if you read the chart along with the video, its cool. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zmBQAg87Y&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zmBQAg87Y...feature=related[/url]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='506429' date='Jun 5 2009, 03:39 PM']Unfortunately it's the rather random and unpredictable variety of coupling called mechanical coupling, whereby the stage floor acts as a giant drum skin. I wouldn't want to be reliant on that for my lows, especially as it often causes big bottom onstage but not out in the room where you really need it. To get acoustic coupling just keep your cab within a foot or two of the floor and walls - that gives you extra lows with little risk of membrane resonance weirdness, just straightforward reflected sound from your cab coming back and reinforcing the sound that's going forward. Alex[/quote] Hey, Alex. You know some weird stuff, man...

OOOH! Welsh sheep jokes! How original. ZZZ ZZZ ZZZZ zzzzzz zzzzzz!

The pull off with the thumb is almost imperceptable (like a ghost note version of a thump) and you don't need to pull hard as much as 'brush past' the string with your thumb - just enough to make it click. The rest is about your sound and how balanced the various aspects of the technique are in teh overall effect.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='504829' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:41 PM']I can groove through a sh*t amp without my pedalboard. I may not enjoy it as much, and probably won't play as well, but i'll still be able to "groove".[/quote] We aren't disagreeing. You sound good, you groove. Just because you have no pedals doesn't mean you don't sound good. Just because you have a bad amp, doesn't mean you don't sound good. Bad sound = less convincing groove, IMHO.

[quote name='chris_b' post='504805' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:18 PM']That might be true, but if he doesn't try then he won't know.[/quote] You may be right, Chris. The trouble with gear is that, even if you live near a credible dealer, you never get to try until you buy. I haven't even SEEN any of the cabs you mentioned, let alone played one! I will look out for them, tho'. If I can improve on the Eden with a lighter rig (without selling the car), then that's cool.

That must be it

I have just ordered some castors for my Eden Metro (the last set broke) because I have done a few gigs recently using my SWR/GK MB112s and I am not 100% happy with the sound. I have worked with this little set up for a good few months now on small group jazz gigs and, to be fair, its ok, it really is, but, being blunt, ok just isn't good enough. OK gets you to mediocre in a shot. I wanna sound taaaaaaaasty. So I am going to move back to the Eden and start enjoying the sound again. I hate the weight of the damn thing but its the sound that matters and, with the castors in place, its less of an issue as I only need to carry it over thresholds and up steps, mostly when there are people around who will help. Its so easy to get your head turned by the path of least resistance but, on this one, the end result justifies the effort. In my opinion, that's where the groove comes from; the sound not the notes. Compromise the sound and you compromise the groove. I want that on a t-shirt

Could be - I don't know either I am just aware that moving stuff around causes sounds to change. So, if you move lots of things around, perspectives changes. Also, if the waves are reflected on different services, some frequencies are absorbed and others not etc. All of this changes the overtone percetnages in a note and so on. Whilst this will not, of itself, impact upon intonation, I can see that it will impact upon the listener's perception of that intonation. Same as a recording - whenever I record myself, my intonation on the playback is out. It sounded perfectly good when I was playing the tune but, when I listen to it played back, there is something about the recording process that makes it sound out of tune... What?

I have played all sorts of music on a fretless, not just jazz/ballads/quiet stuff and there is next to nothing you can't do on it (it will only go MWAHHHHHHH if you want it to!). THe only thing I think that the fretted bass excells in is slapping and, possibly, tapping (although the latter of these still sounds horrible to me, fretted or fretless). Re: Sound in the toilet - If anything moves in the room – the sound source, the listener or any reflecting surface – then the Doppler effect comes into play. The Doppler effect is best demonstrated by the siren of a passing fire engine, which appears to drop in pitch as it goes past. Sound can’t travel faster than its natural velocity in any given medium (in this case, air), so if the sound source moves, then velocity of the source converts to a rising in pitch for an approaching source, a lowering of pitch for a source that is moving away. In most contexts where acoustics are important, neither the source nor listener will be moving significantly, nor will the reflecting surfaces. If, however, you move several tens of metres away and listen to the original sound through three brick walls, each covered in tiles, plaster, wallpaper etc stuff that is in tune 'onstage' will appear not to be.

The playing of the thing is important and the points raised are valid but. for me, after playing fretless almost entirely for 23 years (on the full range of the neck - no dusty bits here!!), I find that the most important things to ensure good intonation are the sound you have at any given time and your ability to hear and listen to that sound on stage. Your muscle memory is important but your EARS are what tell you when you are or are not in tune. If you can't hear yourself, you may be in big trouble, even if you don't know it. I would practice intially in a quiet space so you can get used to developing reference points for your tuning (open strings, octaves and harmonics) and can relate your intontation to other sources such as other players or recordings. As you get more confident in your intonation, you can get out there and play - its may takes hours, days or weeks; that is a matter for you. Your commitment to effective intonation will, however, remain your priority forever as, without attention, it can easily slip, even after decades.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='503657' date='Jun 2 2009, 12:08 PM']Is he a relative of Martin France by any chance?[/quote] I used to think so but for some reason I think he isn't related (I can't remember the facts, its just that I remember being wrong about something - its such a rare occurance, it sticks in my memory ). If someone can confirm the either/or, that would be great. As for subaudios question, the charts were a mixture of basic chord charts (such as you would see in one of the real books) but with added kicks, stabs, riffs, fills, intros and codas - some were very intricate/clever arrangements and needed us to be really focussed in terms of nailing the chart. The dots refer to specific details. You would expect to create your own walking lines or groove parts 'in the idiom' required (swing/Latin/funk/pop etc) but certain details would be written out very specifically (eg if you were doubling a piano part or a lead line or if you were playing a specific fiqure as a lead in or ending). The most important skill under these circumstances is to be able to deal with the geography of the chart (sines/codas/repeats etc) so, whatever else goes wrong, you know where you are in the performance.

That went ok. We had to play for 7 different graduating jazz singers (Anglia Ruskin University) and I had to learn 34 tunes/arrangements in a two hour rehearsal - hurrah for dots, I say!! It was great becasue Nic and Chris Ingham (the pianist/arranger) were 100% on the money so, as a result, I was able to relax and just nail the gig. I missed a couple of odds and sods (the odd coda and a couple of endings were imperfect) but basically I did a professional job. Nic is half way through a tour with Terri Callier and Chris plays with Claire Teal and some other name vocalists so I feel like I have had a valuable experience. On the downside, my soudn was not what I wanted (should have used the Eden) and the room was unforgiving but, otherwise, a good night.