Bilbo

Ok - you win. I'll stop.

[quote name='chris_b' post='475600' date='Apr 29 2009, 11:30 PM']Good grief!![/quote] Sorry, mate, but the list of influential players I have not heard gets longer every year. Bass names I have not listened to for more than a few moments Larry Graham (if ever) Carol Kaye Jack Cassidy (Jefferson Airplane) Victor Wooten Oteil Burbridge (is that the spelling) Cliff Williams Tim Bogert (if ever) The Jamaroquoi players - Zender and the bloke after him Les Claypool Jerry Jemmott Louis Johnson John Myung Felix Pappalardi Chuck Rainey.... The list goes on. I also haven't read much Dickens, Steinbeck, Mailer, Shakespeare, Huxley..... I get by I learned a long time ago that a great bass player does not make for great music. I bought 'Pet Sounds' recently to see what all the fuss was about and was not impressed. Don't like 'The White Album'. Legends are usually a minority interest! So sue me.

I actually believe that a good sound is the secret to a good groove. If you just play all the right notes in all the right places, it will probably still not groove. If you do that AND have a great sound, the pocket is yours and the music comes alive.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='475800' date='Apr 30 2009, 10:48 AM']It's a shame none of the pissed punters you play to will give a sh*t though.[/quote] The reality is that they will only notice subliminally but they will notice. I used to work (PA/lighting) with a band in Wales who had a great reputation and a very successful local career. Their reputation for having a good live experience was based on quality gear (Bose, Ovation/Adamus guitars. Trace Eliot gear (when it was good), top flight keyboards, a credible soundman, good lighting (me) and some mature musicality from the players. The punters loved it. I have no doubt that they didn't know WHY they loved it but, if the sound is good, people respond.

It shows the value of an effective MD. I think one of the things we do badly in this UK is the practice of working together as a team to ensure the best possible product. Due to circusmtances, we all tend to tolerate 'adequacy' without comment, preferring not to rock the boat (its a very British thing). A good producer of MD should be able to stand in front of a band and say stuff like: Weak sound, change your gera. Drummer is weak, replace him. Great snare sound but that ride cymbal is undermining the guitars. You guys need to tighten up your backing vocals But, I guess whenever those of us who can see/hear what is wrong mention it, egos can trip in and things can get bumpy. For me, humility is something that is cheap (not as costly as a new PA that's for sure) and deeply effective in allowing a flow of ideas and creativity. If a producer tells me to use fretted bass, I need to try it, even if I think differently. Someone needs to have the big picture in mind and it is often the case that musicians are the worst people for seeing that. So many bands struggle to improve because not everyone is pulling in the same direction. In your case, kudos to your guitarists for being big enough to let you help.

Great stuff everyone. Now do ballad! Or a love song? A lullaby? A Pavanne?

Rotosounnd Solo Bass 45s... 23 years and no fretbard wear.

Not sure I get what she is driving at. I struggle to see how you can explain chord toens without understanding teh scales they derive from and vice versa. Her criticisma of convetional classical training are credible as they really don't bother with chords but, if I am trying to explain chord tones, I relate it to a scale. The two are symbiotic. I have never heard any Kaye that I would class as memorable so have no opinion on her playing.

[quote name='Faithless' post='474968' date='Apr 29 2009, 12:29 PM']And, what do you mean by that, Bilbo? You won't prove me it any-way, that fretless suits all situations in life... [/quote] The only situation where, arguably, a fretted is better, IMO, is when you are slapping. I don't go there so the fretless wins every time. I find it delivers a better sound, warmer, fuller, more expressive, more wood and less metal (I know what that means). I am, of course, referring to the kinds of gigs I do so this is bound to be a completely subjective perspective. PS I played fretted only for the first 6 years. With a pick!

Played one for a whole evening recently and will never do so again. After the intial 'wow, it does sound like a bass', you quickly begin to find its limitations in terms of its expressive potential. Vibrato is clumpy and unmusical, right hand technique is all over the place because of the excessive flexibility in the strings (like tryin to play a hammock!!), and the smallness is a real barrier to digging in (its like a 6 foot man riding a five year olds bicycle). IMHO, they are toys and of limited use in real musical situations.

Haven't done more than a handful of gigs on fretted bass since 1986 (and they weren't by choice!). People are right; you have to be able to hear yourself or your intonation will be impossible to guage accurately.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='471237' date='Apr 24 2009, 02:18 AM'](eg Bilbo, I can now play Grasshopper note for note)[/quote] Me too (or at least I could a long time ago!!) - bloomin' marvellous! I love the way Flim uses the whole of the 5-string and not just the low B when he builds his lines. He is, for me, THE 5-string player.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='470423' date='Apr 23 2009, 09:49 AM']Don't have time and have never played with another musician who can read.[/quote] Wonder why that is?

I did a trio rehearsal last night, (guitar/vocs, bass and sax), the second of 2 for a Brazillian music gig this Sunday. We have to play 35 tunes two of us don't know. Because myself and the sax player can read, we went through them like a dose of salts and they sound really great. Can't wait for the gig. START NOW. LEARN TO READ. IT'S BRILL!

Patience! 10 months is not as long as you think! If you are still having trouble after 2 or 3 years, then maybe you need some other help! In the meantime, don't fret I tend towards three fingers at the lower end of the neck although can move to 1234 if the line demands it (which is not that often). If you are low on the neck, the options created by open strings are greater and you can use them to make stuff happen. In reality, with practice you can move from fretting a low F to a high Eb without it sounding like there is a gap between the notes. Its a matter of phrasing.

[quote name='lowdown' post='469598' date='Apr 22 2009, 01:53 PM']'Things that musicians do that are a waste of time!, We all do it but we shouldn't....' Endless hours of posting on Forums?.... Garry[/quote] Depends on whether you could be practicing instead. If you are posting with a bass and amp next to you, I agree. But miost of us are not. If I was at home, I wouldn't be typing this

Neither do I. Someone just moved my keyboard 1 cm to the right at just the wrong moment.

I am not critical of people learning other pwoplw's basslines at all. Its an essential part of the process of development. Its the hundreds of hours spent learning pieces that are hard because they are hard but which are, ultimately, a very inefficient way of learning stuff. Weather Report's 'River People' may be a 'great' way of learning octaves but why not just learn octaves and waste less time?

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='467473' date='Apr 20 2009, 02:18 PM']I wanna do Bach's Prelude for Cello like John Patitucci. I started to learn it but the stretches are so huge on a 6 string bass that I'm probably never going to play it with the smoothness of a cellist.[/quote] You can do it on a 4. I did - as do most cello players And I never played it again - complete waste of time!!!!! Actually, its not but why that one. WHy not one of the other Bach pieces. Or some other composer? We all do the same ones!! Baaa, baaaa. baaaaaaa

[quote name='Oscar South' post='467442' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:46 PM']I got them from the local library, just dealing with the pianists woes of trying to turn pages as I play.[/quote] Teeth? Toes?

I was reading the thread from the guy that wants to learn Bakithi Kumalo's line on 'You Can Call Me Al' and noted a few people said it was something they had learned/wanted to learn. Having a perverse sense of perspective, my immediate thought was 'why'? We all do it. There is a list of bass lines that seem to be essential learning for bass players; 'Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick', 'Teen Town', 'Amazing Grace' by Wooten, that thing by Stu Hamm - you know the stuff I am talking about. It's all over YouTube. So we all go learn it and what? We only ever play it to impress people who aren't musicians (if it looks harder than it is) or to impress other musicians (if it is harder than it looks). We waste hours of study time learning a chunk of Stanley Clarke, or a wodge of Les Claypool, a modicum of Mark King or a pinch of Jaco or Flea. We should be studying music not musicians licks. These are just party tricks not core skills. I think its probably fair to say that the kids that don't do these things and focus on the core knowledge are probably going to be better that those that can execute the party pieces but can't really play music. For the record, I haven't learned Kumalo's line but did do Teen Town, Berlin's 'Bach' solo, 5G, Motherlode etc and a couple of bits of Stu Hamm! I am as bad as anytime in this area of wastage but urge developing players not to waste time on juggling and 'play the damn music' Listen to the grooves and don't worry about the fills; they're not important! Jeff Berlin is my guru - just don't make me listen to him playing!

[quote name='Oscar South' post='467360' date='Apr 20 2009, 12:08 PM']I got an email this morning saying "Can you play bass for our performance of Rent, rehearsal is 7:30 tonight gig is tomorrow". Does anyone know where I can get hold of the piano scores or bass charts for this? Thanks, Oscar,[/quote] Nail it cold, ya wimp!!! Seriously, you could try your local library if you are near a reasonably big one. Or can the MD get them to you by hand/courier?

Just be aware that the famous solo slapping lick in the middle was played by the bass player and then the engineer flipped the tape so the second half of the lick is the first half playing backwards. You can't play it as it is because it wasn't as it sounds!!

I go pre - if the engineer is a numpty with cloth ears, me eqing the bass before s/he gets the signal is not going to disguise the fact

One of my bands supported Kool & The Gang at the Hammersmith Apollo about 5 years ago. They were great. Get Down On It!!!!