Bilbo

'explaining chops'. I gotta get me some of those.

OMFG!!!! It's my birthday today and you'll never guess what my fabulous wife bought me?!!!

You can't argue with that.

Brilliant post, Hector. Sums it up perfectly. As for fast solos; I always think in terms of short phrases, strong rhythms and leaving plenty of space to allow ideas to breath, to sink in and to be digestable. You can fly on something like a soprano sax but, on a double bass, this can end up sounding muddy because the note's timbre has no room to speak.

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1437556339' post='2826942'] At the end of the sixties it seemed you couldn't give a double bass away, such was the ubiquity of the bass guitar. I remember some article hailing the BG as the most significant new instrument in jazz for the past three decades. At that time my DB fell apart and I went over to BG and it would be fifteen years before I had a DB again. Thing was, I'd started on DB and due to my early influences - notably the blessed Sam Jones - I played in front of the beat. As the BG spoke a lot quicker I found myself playing very much in front of the beat. When I went back to double bass I remember a muso saying to me, words to the effect, ' I didn't realise you were a good player because on BG we didn't think you were too hot'. [/quote] An interesting story. I think there is a lot of this that comes out of the Marsalis neo-classicist era. Marsalis LPs always carried the tag 'this LP was recorded without the dreaded bass direct'. The purist message was all but universal during that time and, since that was the ethos that added impetus to the Jazz scene that existed immediately followed that era, it has never really gone away. Having said that, there is the simple fact that the doulbe bass and electric bass sit in radically different places in the sonic mix and, for most Jazz fans (and Jazz musicians are all Jazz fans), the double bass sounds better in terms of it sitting at the bottom of the ensemble sound and holdin it together. The electric sits higher up and further forward and creates what is essentially a completely different effect and which also leaves a gap at the bottom.

I only saw the Acoustic and Jazz editions and have to say that the musicians on show all deserved to be there. I had my preferences but they were all tasty musicians and great adverts for their instruments.

It's all got a bit surreal.

Even Ron Carter played electric for about a fortnight in the 1960s.

Miles Davis - 'Nobody knows what the bass does but they miss it if it isn't there'.

[quote name='pjb13.bass' timestamp='1437493396' post='2826518'] 1. I notice that there is no denial that I was thrown off the thread. 2. I never said that my account was deleted. 3. The old ' I can't remember' is not the same as this definitely did or did not happen. [/quote] I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

[quote name='pjb13.bass' timestamp='1437491152' post='2826481'] 2. I was on this site before and on a thread started by this same individual entitled something like 'Isn't Jazz wonderful' I raised some points, these points were countered and I re-countered and so on as is the point of these boards. However, despite not using any bad language or being in anyway abusive, I was not only thrown off the thread but, as other contributors told me, also all of my comments were deleted from the thread. That is not just censorship that is abuse of power by a moderator. So[i] that[/i] is why I expect his attitude. That and the fact that since I've come back he doesn't appear to have changed at all. [/quote] I have put on more weight. Seriously, though, I have no idea what you are talking about in terms of deleting posts in my 'God, I Love Jazz' thread. I have never been aware of any shenanighans on there that required any deletions and I certainly can't remember doing it (also, I cannot delete accounts; that's well above my pay grade). I am really not that easily offended (pompous and condescending I can take, but TWADDLE?!!!). And, tauzero, re: dancing to 7:4; there are more ways to enjoy a gig than dancing and I suspect (although I have no evidence for this) that, overall, more people DON'T dance at gigs than do. There are also other varables. Having done many wedding/party gigs with the same band, I am often amazed at the way in which the same songs/set can get everyone dancing at one gig and hardly anyone dancing at the next.

[quote name='pjb13.bass' timestamp='1437488656' post='2826450'] The usual pompous, condescending twaddle we've come to expect from this...individual. [/quote] You know you like it really.

They don't miss the point at all. Electric bass playing Jazz is perfectly acceptable, especially if the player is Steve Swallow. Jazz is a very broad church and can accommodate anything if it is used with integrity. In the real world, double bass playing Jazz is the normal default for a 'standards' gig, to the point where MDs will book a bad double bass player before they book a decent electric player! It is not a question of whether the bass player believes it to be authentic or acceptable, it is whether the MD believes it. My argument is simply that mostly that is exactly what they think. PS I have a Jazz gig on Saturday and I am going to do it on electric

Cool.

I run a Jazz gig Best audience reaction ever was Mammal Hands; a three piece sax/keys/drum trio doing totally original material most of which was not in 4:4 or 3:4. Worst audience reaction - perfectly competent girl singer doing the great American songbook. I think there is a lot of lazy thinking on here; tediously conservative (small c). Giving the audience who are there what they want may be udnermining your ability to attract many more punters who want something else. Most people I know would not more go and watch a 'default' covers band than they would a free form Jazz gig. Give them something that they will like but surprise them at the same time.

A suite? Nay a song cycle? The Dad3353 Songbook.....

Makes sense. Thank you.

That makes great copy but, in Jazz, you cannot really play a credible groove without understanding the issues of interesting note choices. Whereas a pop or funk tunes generally requires acres of repetition and nuanced variations are nice but superfluous, a Jazz walking line requires endless variation and interaction so playing the same thing again and again would be counter-productive.

Dad makes a great pizza too! And, yes, I have eaten at that restaurant (a LOOOOONG time ago)!!

Which Warwick Red Label strings are you referring to, bro? I can't see a seven set on-line but this ERB malarky is new to me - I have never even needed to buy a low B before!!! Just curious how much a set would be to replace the ones on this bass if I bought one.

No - nobody likes a smart arse.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1437376930' post='2825304'] Nothing wrong with "Fly Me To The Moon", in the right (and left) hands of course...... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8P-aw-Qu84[/media] [/quote] Nothing you couldn't cure with a spade across the back of the head. The 'offended' saxophone player discussed above may be in the wrong in a debate on aesthetics but, if it's his gig he is booking, it is a matter for him. There are thousands of examples of electric bass playing Jazz standards. Most of them suck but the few superb examples don't provide insufficient leverage with which to argue that the electric is anything but a last resort for most players. I was thinking about this on the weekend. I did a pop gig with a five piece (three vocals, guitar, bass, drums, keyboards and trumpet - all the vocalists played) and it was a sweet gig in terms of the lovely people involved but, fundamentally, it sucked because the production values were all over the place and the sounds across the board were 'nearly but not quite'. It was a scratch band essentially and it was 'good enough' for the occasion but it was all over the place for all sorts of reasons. A classic Jazz quartet of piano, double bass, drums and one horn will almost always sound 'authentic'. Take out the double bass and replace it with electric and, in most cases, it immediately starts to sound flaky. A lot of (most?) Jazz is played by scratch bands so the default position is piano, double bass, drums and hornn (of course, I am generalising). Electric piano is almost always a given - so few venues have pianos nowadays - but electric bass will mostly be a last resort. Even electric guitar has to be idiomatically appropriate (Kenny Burrell not Frank Gambale!!). It is interesting to note that, as soon as I got a double bass, my electric bass Jazz calls stopped immediately, even thought I was sh*t (I used to ask and was always told 'double bass' - I stopped asking). Unless someone can go back and get Miles to re-record Cookin', Relaxin', Steamin' and Workin' with electric bass, I suspect the double bass will remain the instrument of choice for most Jazz standards ensembles. In 99% of cases, it just sits better in the mix.

Would irritate the f*** out of me but I wouldn't do anything about it as the stress of that would be worse. Bit if wood filler would deal with it. I don't really aspire to perfection as I know I cannot maintain it but fresh out of the box? I would get into 'why me' mode and f and jeff an bit before getting on with it.

With respect, the innovative use of electric bass in Jazz is not in question. Of course it is entirely legitimate. That is very different to a little Suffolk trio rolling up at a restaurant gig in Felixstowe to play Fly Me To The Moon. Prime Time tunes would get you kicked out in a second 😃

I think it's a bit of both but Garrison never had PC's chops. He had his thing, absolutely, but PC had the smoother technique and stronger bop chops. Garrison was, for me, the deeper of the two.