mtroun

My ex housemate, who's a manager at one of the stores, just told me. It's his birthday as well, natch. Though he's already had offers from five companies who want him to work for them. My experience of buying from DV has been nothing but positive in the past, I think it's just a sign of the times.

Whether you like their playing? Or think you can learn something from them? Or have a recommendation from someone else? I got a recommendation for lessons with Simon Woolf, who I had no idea about at the time but I now realise was rather a good pick of first double bass teacher. Since then I have had studied with various people who I wanted to learn from because I liked their approach to the instrument or particular philosophy of music. Not necessarily all bass players mind you. I think if you have a lesson with someone and you didn't feel like you learned anything then you've got the wrong teacher.

Tomorrow night Osian Roberts at Jazz at Dempsey's, I'm playing bass behind this esteemed tenor sax player!

This is interesting thread. I wouldn't discount anyone's opinion, even if the opinions seem conflicting! I can only reply based on my experience: I had a really horrible Stentor Student bass (I say horrible but the Gear 4 Music is worse!), it was my first bass and like you I didn't have anything to really compare it to when I first got it. It was all I could afford and that was the bottom line. In the end I guess price is also going to be your bottom line. I have only very recently upgraded to a Bryant, which is a 'serious instrument', properly made and sounding and responding in ways the Stentor never was going to. I was told I'd outgrown the Stentor quite a few years before I replaced it, because double basses are really expensive! Personally I've never thought a bass over a grand but under 3 grand seems like a wise purchase unless secondhand. As some people have noted, there is a world of difference between a ply and a fully carved bass. There is also a world of difference between different ply basses and different carved basses. Part of me says to advise you in the direction of a cheap (ish) bass, something you don't have to fight to play, but isn't going to break the bank. I'd go secondhand if I was going to do it all again, so as not to lose resale value and also because there are some very solidly built ply basses from the latter half of the 20th century that are kicking around, made to a much higher standard than Stentor or Gear4Music instruments (sorry I haven't played on a strunal so can't offer an opinion) They don't sound particularly amazing as a rule but can be made reasonably playable if they have a nice Ebony board (though I find ply instruments a tad unresponsive) and might in fact sound amazing with gut strings on. Once you've got one, get to know the instrument, get some lessons, talk to some players at gigs, stay away from basschat for a while and play the thing. Then come back on here when you're complaining of pain, rest, repeat the process!

I just asked my mate who is manager of one of DV's branches about this and he simply said 'No more Fender'. I'm guessing this is something to do with the new dealership only model as mentioned above, meaning profit margins and prices are set by Fender.

Only journalists could romanticise the toilet circuit, because of the street cred associated with catching future superstars before they hit the big time. I don't see journalists snooping around toilet venues when it's just bands playing to their mates on weeknights, which is unfortunately the extent of 'promotion' offered by promoters, as mentioned above. Journalists are only likely to go to the kind of toilet gigs when bands have already built up a good following and are about to break into the mainstream. Since I mostly play jazz these days, I'm used to playing to a small, specialist audience but unfortunately the toilet circuit is all about exploiting musicians' friends and getting them to buy the usually awful lager in their shabbily maintained venues. OTOH, it is upsetting how most of the pubs that bother with cleaning, decorating and serving decent drinks seem to be phasing out live music in favour of big screen TVs showing sport. You can watch TV at home with a beer, how many people can watch a live band at home with a beer?

My advice would be to follow your nose, so to speak. Learn to play the music that you really like and if something seems too hard to do in one go, break it down into smaller steps. I have tonnes of music books but it took me far too long to realise that if I'm looking for inspiration as to what to practice, your ears are your best guide.

Have fun on your journey! I've been told you can fit a double bass in a (original) mini.

You aware that this is a (brilliant) joke video? One for the jazz geeks (that's me)

[quote name='gcordez' timestamp='1361355468' post='1984876'] Yeah, it's my 'investment portfolio'.. [/quote] There's something wrong with you, Greg...

I believe that PC played the A on the G string (I've had this discussion with other bass players). There are videos of Ron Carter playing the A on the D string though (because of the faster tempo Miles called it at in the 60s)

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361302082' post='1984252'] Funny! But I have never understood why pick players are not considered to be 'proper' bass players? [/quote] It's because of the association of the pick with guitar players and fingers with the double bass. Anthony Jackson and John Paul Jones are good examples of players who just choose whatever's best for the music, but in the end it's everyone's personal choice how they play. Personally I can't be bothered to try and find picks (I have no pick technique anyway) so it's not likely to be part of my repertoire anytime soon, more's the shame probably.

I think Talkbass has a thread along these lines... IIRC Pirastro designed it primarily as an arco string, while Evah Pirazzi is their go-to 'hybrid' string. I do like Evah Pirazzi (reg and weich), though I don't use them anymore. They have a rich,dark sound, nice old-school decay, start easily with the bow and have a real pop when pizzed, though they don't last very long and aren't as 'fast' as Spirocores.

Is there much hope in just having 'the one?' I can't imagine having another one, mine's perfect; though I haven't found the perfect strings that give me both the pizz and arco response I want (good luck finding that, I know... maybe if I try a few hundred more different sets) As it is I can't afford to have more than one double bass. I think I need more than one electric bass, but maybe that's because I'm not sufficiently in love with the one I use like I am with my double bass.

Yeah that would be the RWCMD 'jazz lads' after a few too many...

Thanks for the plug Sarah! I get the weird feeling that a lot of people don't know about Jazz at Dempsey's - they put on a lot of the best jazz talent in the UK but because it's not particularly obvious where it is (even in the pub), while Cafe Jazz is easier to find but has a more variable quality of stuff on. I'm really looking forward to seeing Dave Hamblett group next week. The Ballamy/Warren gig was amazing - they have an album with June Tabor out on ECM this year. They were both my tutors at the Royal Welsh College last year and are very nice, helpful, down to earth people - but when they play I'm scared... Is Sir Julian Mr. Martin? Lovely bloke!

I'm following this with interest because I've had my battles in the past with back and shoulder pain, had a good few months without much at all but now it's all back with a vengeance. I think the height of the bass has a big part to play, I've just put my bass up a bit and I think that's part of the key for me, my old bass had an awful endpin that couldn't go particularly high, I've found I need it really quite high even though I'm not particularly tall. I've got a friend who's very tall who has his bass much lower than me (he looks very hunched when he plays, not sure quite how that works for him) I've tried sitting but it didn't work for me. I think your general health also has a big part to play; I'm under a lot of stress at the moment (student teacher) and I've not been eating particularly healthy food lately. Switching from German to French bow helped me quite a lot as well, I think I've got short arms. I think how much you play has an effect as well, I find myself most relaxed on the bass and getting the best sound if I'm playing several hours a day (sadly not getting that at the moment!)

In fairness, it has gone down as well as up. Like many things, it's a compromise (frankly my current amplification situation is too much of a compromise in the direction of my ailing wallet) There are also definitely no magic bullets either, I'm thinking of the OP who is considering getting bridge adjusters, quite rightly I think before anyone can offer advice for or against, we need to know why they feel the need to alter their action. I definitely feel there is no use thinking 'if my action was higher/lower I would be able to produce the perfect tone from my bass/be able to play more accurately' as there are too many other variables. I only raised the action on my bass because when I pulled on the strings they were crapping out... There is a point when it all becomes too much hard work with a high action and your playing suffers. Going back to Alexander technique, it's important to be relaxed playing the bass, often the biggest sound doesn't feel like a lot of effort but involves pulling the string just the right amount. One more thing (and I'm aware this is moving progressively more away from the topic) but you've got to know what kind of sound you're aiming for in your head. As one of my teachers told me as I quizzed her about bow technique, 'let your ears be your guide'.

Re: the absence of adjusters. Yes, probably among older players. Having been around the music colleges of the UK I don't see many young players, jazz or classical, who don't have bridge adjusters on their instruments as they are pretty much standard fit by luthiers. I find your comments seem like an attempt to have a snipe at jazz players who apparently don't need their instrument to produce a quality tone. I'm sure bridge adjusters are one of the many factors that can have a variable difference in your tone, such as: string height (fairly massive difference and probably why players fit adjusters to get the optimum setup) tailpiece material (apparently plastic sounds better than ebony but most stick with tradition), strings (how many players compromise based on tuning stability or ease of bowing, I find many basses set up for classical playing have 'deader' sounding strings such as Belcanto or Flexocor, do they sound as sweet under the bow when under control as plain gut?), bridge material, soundpost and bassbar setup (a lot of older instruments are in need of drastic rebuilding to get the best possible sound), the instrument's spike (some use a wooden spike to preserve tone) fingerboard planing and of course the actual wood the instrument is made of, not to mention the player's individual technique? I'm not saying all these things don't have an effect but advising someone not to get adjusters based on their perceived effect on tone and then saying it doesn't matter for jazz players, playing through an amp doesn't seem like a logical thought process. Jazz players, playing pizzicato (or indeed with the bow) spend a lot of time on their acoustic sound production and get judged on the standard of their sound. Amplifiers can affect the sound adversely of course, but ideally we're looking to transfer the sound that we've worked very hard to produce as closely as possible when we have to use an amplifier. As a jazz player I actually favour a higher action than a lot of classical players I know because I'm aiming for a) a big acoustic sound and an amplified big acoustic sound. With adjusters fitted to my bass I have been gradually raising the action of my instrument to get a bigger sound as I build up the necessary callouses to play with such a big action. I'm sure any negative impact the adjusters have on the tone of my bass would probably be a case of striking the string slightly lower down with bow or fingers to achieve the desired tone. To the OP, your first port of call should be a teacher, then a luthier. As ubassman rightly points out, a bass's action can be adjusted with a file. Knowing what action you really prefer can be a bit of a pain to find out (I had a bit of trouble over xmas, didn't play for a over a week and suddenly found my instrument very hard to take on) but a teacher can steer you in the right direction, perhaps.

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1359932038' post='1962350'] I haven't seen very many classical players with these type of bridges and it definitely seems to rob some of the tone particularly for arco playing (IMHO anyway !). [/quote] In my experience, I have rarely met a classical player who doesn't have an adjustable bridge on their bass. Most luthiers seem to fit adjustable bridges as standard on new basses and all the basses restored by the Contrabass Shoppe are fitted out with adjustable bridges - they mainly provide instruments to orchestral players. I spoke to luthier Martyn Bailey about adjustable bridges some time ago and he said they have absolutely no impact on tone and wooden adjusters are purely an aesthetic choice. I'm inclined to agree as pretty much all the nicest instruments I've ever played had adjustable bridges on them. Having a bridge cut to the right size for the bass and setup at the right angle is more likely to have an impact than the difference a pair of adjusters would make, IMO. [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1359932038' post='1962350'] Personally I don't really 'get' the popularity of adjustable bridges ? Come from the school of thought that if you know the sort of action you want then why would you want to adjust ( unless your bass is dimensionally unstable)? I suppose if you are not so sure then its a good way to experiment but remember just as you get the G string action perfect , the other 3 will also have moved ! - its not like theres an independent action for each string that you get with a quality bass guitar. [/quote] The whole point of having an adjustable bridge is to be able to maintain your desired action through seasonal changes as the wood expands and contracts.

I use Velvet Garbo on my bass for the D & G (with Spiro E & A). I made the switch recently from the full set of Spiros. Garbos are bigger and more old-school sounding than Animas, which have a slightly more modern (but still 'gutlike' sound) I went for the switch because I wanted to get a more gut-like sound and Garbos deliver. The tension is low but it matches well with Spiros on E and A (I like a bit more definition on the lower strings) and contributes to a rich sound. What strings are you using now? What kind of sound are you aiming for? That's probably going to dictate whether or not Animas are for you.

Might be worth asking Calum Gourlay. Really amazing player, nice guy, lovely teacher, very in-demand for gigs but could probably find time. Jasper Hoiby and Tom Farmer get a lot of good feedback but I don't have personal experience of studying with them. Best bet is to go to some jazz gigs and ask a bass player whose playing you enjoy whether they'd like to teach you.

I wish they sold singles, as I broke a G some time ago and I've had a three string bass ever since then. Other than that I absolutely love these strings, plus their bigger brothers Thomastik Spirocores, on my double bass!

I've just put Velvet Garbo D&G on my Bryant (it had a full set of spiro mittel before). Got to wait a few days to let it settle in but I'm a bit torn. I love the clarity of the Spiros, but on gigs i sounds quite nasty on the top strings. The Garbo G doesn't appeal to me as much as the D at the moment: it's funny how the G and D are the same size. I'm very much hooked on the sound of Larry Gales, Sam Jones, Richard Davis and Jimmy Garrison who were all using gut strings in their heyday, and the Garbos do seem to come close, but it's definitely a very different sound from the Spiro set. I do think the Spiro EA blend quite well with Garbo DG though.