mtroun

I wouldn't get Olivs if you haven't got decent tuners. The tuning seems to be worse on the D than the G but then I've had the G on quite a lot longer, though the D should have settled by now it's been a couple of months and they get played at least an hour an day. The Oliv D has quite a few dead spots for me particularly on Bb. I kind of like the dead notes as they remind me of Larry Gales! I had spirocores on my bass when I got it - the G string annoyed me too much so I went for Oliv G, and recently added Oliv D - they are sumptuous to bow! I am tempted to get a Gamut G string but it does have to be bowable, any advice.

Oh yeah and Contrabass Shoppe - I really don't understand how they can justify their pricing to be honest...

I know lots of pros who are playing on lesser quality instruments than a Bryant. Dare I say it, but a 'really nice bass' might not be the best instrument for jazz. The great Dennis Irwin played on a plywood bass. Ray Brown famously traded in his old italians, feeling the sound was too complex for jazz. The Bryant for me has a pretty massive tone, I'm worried I've worried Andrew with talk of the work that had to be done to it after purchase: ultimately double basses do need occasional repair work regardless of how well they were made in the first place. http://www.soundcloud.com/marktrounson - that's me on the bryant, recorded with a Zoom H2, no amplification. (The older tracks are from a gig on my old stentor through an amp, I'm always surprised at how good it sounds considering how much I hated it!) On Doxy I think you get a pretty good impression of the sound of the bass - hefty! It sounds better now it's had a setup, and I have to admit I'm not producing the best sound that instrument can make - I'm really trying to improve my chops to get a more consistent sound at the moment, regardless of tempo. And Floyd, good luck that's an admirable goal you've set yourself! Did you know that I'm studying privately with Tom Martin now? More affordable than I thought it would be!

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1380237101' post='2222818'] I am not sure where you were going with this long post... Seem unnecessary... I am going to get into the academy and that is all you need to know. Mtroun [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRqYluR5Aa0[/media] this man is why... [/quote] I was wondering why you would be so convinced of going to one college over all of the others. I understand that you admire Duncan McTier but I believe that he is currently suspended from his position due to allegations of less than admirable conduct. But over and above that, there's a whole lot of other great bass players in this country to learn from, we are spoilt for choice in fact! I have quite a few friends who study at the academy, but I'm pretty sure they all auditioned for other colleges as well and kept an open mind. Have you had consultation lessons with tutors from all of the major colleges? How long since completing your A-Levels are you prepared to wait to successfully audition? Are the other aspects of the course preparing you for what you envision for your career? Are you sure your career goals will be the same in 10/20/40 years? Could you study privately with Duncan McTier for cheaper if he's your main reason for attending the Academy? I'm not trying to have a go I'm just interested in why you have one particularly singular goal. Not that single-mindedness is a bad thing, I think to be honest we all need to be single minded if we are really serious about having a career in music. Personally speaking I've been to university and then done my masters at music college and you learn things in unexpected places. (As you can't hear tone of voice in text, bear in mind that I'm not trying to come across as condescending, I am genuinely very interested and I'm not a classical player so I'm not trying to seem like the bigger man!) Sevenseas, I went to Goldsmiths back in 2005-08. If it's jazz bass you're interested in then Simon Woolf lives a stones throw away from Goldsmiths and taught me an awful lot.

Why does it have to be the Academy?

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1380130300' post='2221316'] You obviously know what you are talking about so i need to pick your brains and wonder if you could answer this. Whenever the question about electric bass v upright acoustic bass comes up in a jazz context most people mention that the electric bass doesn't 'swing'. I suppose most peoples idea of jazz is just that but i've seen enough jazz to know that a lot of it doesn't 'swing' and even in those groups that don't 'swing' the choice of bass is nearly always upright acoustic. Is it just the sound it makes or is it also that it fits in better with the usual jazz instrumentation? [/quote] I think it's probably something about the decay of the notes that creates the 'swing' comparison. I'm not sure if I really agree that you can't play swinging music on the electric bass, but if someone asked me to do a straight ahead gig I feel the sound of the double bass (that's not just the frequencies but the attack and decay of the sound) is going to fit in much better and be much less hard work. The electric bass to me doesn't quite have the 'gravity' if you like which probably comes from the fact it speaks less quickly than an electric bass would. And yes, a lot of jazz (let's not get bogged down too much in what does and doesn't constitute jazz) today is pretty far removed from swing and various other aspects of the jazz tradition. I sometimes question the use of the acoustic bass in 'jazz' music that draws on other popular forms for its rhythmic inspiration, but I suppose most players who describe themselves as jazz musicians have some sort of connection to bebop-era jazz, even if that's not immediately evident from the music they're playing, and they go with the instrument that has the longer heritage in jazz. One of those discussions that doesn't seem to go on all that much is how bass players are expected to do a lot today on the acoustic bass that would've been considered incredibly virtuoso 70 years or so ago. There is sometimes also a brand of snobbishness about bass players using amplifiers in some acoustic jazz contexts, yet because of the influence of pop music as well as technology, I'm pretty sure everyone else (especially drummers) is playing considerably louder than they would have before the widespread availability of bass amplification. It seems to really depend who you talk to. Are players who use the amplifier as a large part of their sound (I'm thinking George Mraz, Palle Danielsson) somehow inauthentic, particularly considering their straight-ahead jazz credentials? And is it really appropriate to play on gut string and no amp when almost no drummers use calf drum skins?

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1380224305' post='2222617'] I remember I left the DB behind and played EB for quite a while. It was great to be heard easily. Trouble was I naturally played DB just in front of the beat to be decent but when I played EB it got a bit too much and some of my fellow musos reckoned I was a bit rubbish. So it was a happy day when I went up to Footes and bought my double bass for the second time. [/quote] I absolutely love this story!

For Steve Swallow I'm quite partial to his playing with the Paul Motian electric bebop band (Try 'Flight Of The Blue Jay') and his work with Jimmy Guiffre. He was also a fabulous acoustic bass player back in the 60s, his work with Art Farmer really shines. There's also some Motian albums with both electric bass (Steve Swallow) and acoustic bass (Larry Grenadier) such as 'Trio 2000+1' (though the piano player on that record may get on your nerves!) One of the reasons I think Steve Swallow is a good jazz electric bass player is that he's got his own concept on the instrument, rather than trying to make it sound like a double bass. He doesn't tend to play a lot of totally straight ahead music anymore, perhaps because he's aware that the only sound for that kind of music is the acoustic bass? In the end they are different instruments. The electric bass doesn't really fit into the sonic space that the double bass does, so it can be hard to make it work in a jazz setting. I know which instrument I prefer to play.

I think the appeal of all things American is because it's a big country with lots of bass players who are all on talkbass and therefore one manufacturer gets well known to talkbass readers over in the UK. I'm sure Upton make nice instruments but there are no magic instruments, there's just a variety of options at different price points, and lots of dealers with very different mark ups in the UK. Violin dealing involves a lot of smoke and mirrors, locked front doors and antique valuation and therefore buying a double bass is absolutely nothing like buying a bass guitar. If you're coming from electric bass to double bass it's especially confusing. It's good that we're able to share all the different options and obviously there aren't a huge number of options at low prices but hang in there. I've got a Bryant and it's lovely but it might not be everyone's cup of tea. It's certainly good value for money but I have played better instruments, though they cost a lot more. I've played worse instruments that cost a lot more as well and better instruments which weren't right for me as well.

A case of mistaken identity then...

Yes well here's the thing: it wolfed before when I had a bigger bridge which had not had the adjusters fitted properly (and therefore wouldn't sit straight). It now continues to wolf, and when Tom Martin looked at my bass he said the bridge was too small and wasn't covering the bass bar properly. But I've just spent £150 on a new bridge so I'm loathe to get a replacement just yet. The luthier who fitted the new bridge was recommended highly on basschat, so I don't know if it's just differences of opinion on bass bridge size. He shot the fingerboard as well and it's playing absolutely beautiful compared to before. My problem is I'm a driver not a mechanic! Btw ubassman you don't happen to play gigs in Leicester occasionally do you?

What happened to the Bryant that was for sale sporadically on basschat and musicalchairs? I can't remember which one of us it was who was trying to sell at the time.

If you can get a Bryant, It'd definitely be my first choice. All basses are likely to need a bit of work to meet your optimum setup requirements (also, you might not know what those are until you've played a quality instrument for a while, I'm still experimenting). Jay Haide basses are really quite nice - but I'd be thinking of the smaller one for jazz.

I find the Spiro Mittel E to have a GLORIOUS sound arco! It's a little tricky to start, but then I'm not the world's best arco player. My Spiro Mittel A is driving me nuts though - it wolfs on the open A, any idea if changing to a different string will help or is there something else I need to do?

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1379671405' post='2215459'] I know where Floyd is coming from. I am estranged from the electric. Not because of any innate flaw in the instrument, just because the gigs where I need to play it are my least favourite due to the nature of the music played. [/quote] Also, there's only so much time in the world. A part of me really wants to master playing the electric bass... but who knows when I'll feel like I have time, considering the many challenges of the double bass?! I don't really think of the electric bass as a 'toy' though, it's more like driving a smaller, faster car.

Transcription is something I do more of these days than I used to, wish I'd done more earlier! I go straight to paper for transcribing bass lines (I'm really looking for patterns and ways around the bass) but transcribing solos I do by ear, phrase by phrase. I know it's said that you should sing along until it's perfect then arrive at the instrument but I've not always found that approach beneficial as it's hard to hear a lot of the small intervals involved in typical bebop playing, particularly at speed. I use Transcribe! to slow things down and then sing each phrase as it comes, sometimes breaking it down note by note, and gradually put it on the bass. This is probably the important point though: I've ceased to be in a hurry while practicing. You really need to will yourself to be patient and do the same thing day in day out if you really want to improve it. You have to be a harsh critic of yourself and try and make what you want to hear happen on the instrument. I always practice restrictively - focusing on one aspect of my playing at a time. Transcribing is important but not the only path towards being a good improvising musician. I'd recommend Hal Crook's 'How To Improvise' for the lowdown on restrictive practicing methods and a whole lifetime's worth of ideas for practice. Combine this with conventional technique studies and deep listening and you can't go far wrong probably.

Oliv G and D, Spiro Mittel A and E. The A string may be getting replaced soon.

Since the majority of the world's best luthiers fit adjusters to their instruments, I wouldn't say they are a bad idea, but they are tricky to install correctly. As previously mentioned it does look like the bridge adjusters aren't fitted straight. There shouldn't be a problem with having adjusters on your instrument though if they are installed correctly.

I think insTuner is pretty good value for money (£2.49 I think) as it incorporates a strobe tuner. There's a review on NoTreble by Damian Erskine that convinced me to try it. Before that I was using Cleartune.

Ok, I didn't look further down to see the OPs choice! Looks like a very nice bass to start on indeed!

[quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1378765344' post='2204561'] The nice gentleman asking for advice is at a pre-beginner stage in his double bass career. A Bryant or a Martin may be a trifle optimistic as a first bass....a bit like buying a Jaguar before starting driving lessons. It is great to start as a pro on another instrument: this will help hugely with musicality as a whole, but the development of 2 good double bass hands will take considerable investment in time time time and patience (and pain). Many fall along the way, so probably best to aim low at the very beginning, at least you can keep your first bass as a deputy bass when you graduate to your fancy one. There are plenty of well made basses at mid-low price points as the Thomann website illustrates. By the way, Nobody is likely to care about how posh a bass is on a pop/folk music stage (I personally testify to this), and you can make excellent music on a modest bass too. [/quote] Can't completely agree. I have come on leaps and bounds since I got a decent bass, because it's a joy to play. If the OP has the budget and is committed then it's probably better to spend a little more than the 'budget' end of the market and have an instrument that won't depreciate in value and won't be a detriment to their development as a musician. But a Bryant or a Martin may be a bit much, I agree, there are lots of decent second hand shop basses about and they are easy enough to sell.

I used to own a Stentor 1950. I can't say I remember it with much fondness, as it cost me lot to do repairs to it and every luthier complained about how awful it was to work on. I found Evah Pirazzis to give it a pretty good sound, but it sounded pretty one dimensional when compared to my Bryant.

I've recently switched to insTuner.

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1378492033' post='2201183'] ..anyway lets not get into that on Geoff's Thread ! [/quote] Yeah, sorry totally OT! I'm really pleased Geoff has put so much effort into making these videos and surprised that they're completely free to view!

Isn't Duncan McTier suspended at the moment?