headless singlecut

[dub]

Has anyone had much experience of headless singlecut basses?

I know Sei make a model like this and I would imagine that the extra mass and rigidity would make up for the lack of mass that a headstock would bring, but I've never had a chance to try one.

[Lfalex v1.1]

(Being the Devil's advocate because I have an idea what your answer will be!) Why do you want the extra overall mass?

I agree that in [i]theory[/i] the extra contact area between neck and body (on a neck-thru at any rate) might help stiffen the neck and assist in modifying (if not improving) the transmission of vibration to/from the body.
If it's a bolt-on, I'd reckon that the screws transmit most of the vibration (Just look at a Ritter...!)

Headlessness has its own set of benefits. Minimal mass resonating at the end of the neck is the main one, helping with stability and (presumably) deadspots. Better instrument balance is another. Size and transportability is a third. After that, it's marginal and subjective changes like the fact that most headless basses use zero frets, the addition/deletion of mechanisms such as string reservoirs/ Bendwells etc.

I can see a train of thought emerging from this and the Steinberger/Streamline thread earlier...

[dub]

It's interesting that "Headlessness has its own set of benefits" (sounds like something written by Elizabeth I to Mary Queen of Scots)
I'd never considered that it might be a tonal advantage.
I'll really have to try some of these headless basses out

[Lfalex v1.1]

That's not Gospel, BTW, just my 2p from having owned 2 for a total of 6 years and played a few others here and there.
Rich (OutToPlayJazz) would likely be able to give you his version of events. He's owned a few Statii from time to time!

You DO need to try them out for yourself. I find the lack of head perfectly acceptable, but can see how some people might utterly loathe it.

[martthebass]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='921990' date='Aug 11 2010, 08:41 PM']You DO need to try them out for yourself. I find the lack of head perfectly acceptable, but can see how some people might utterly loathe it.[/quote]

+1 - I fell into the loathe category for quite some time. I used to use headed exclusively except for a local jamnight where the house bass was a headless Hohner. I used to be 2 frets out for 10 minutes until my head adjusted but never really felt comfortable. A year later I had a shoulder problem and moved onto a Streamline as a last resort - I now use this as my main bass and now don't have this problem. Strangely enough when I use a 'normal' bass I don't have any problem adjusting.

One thing I can't get over tho is that it never, repeat never goes out of tune!

Edited August 11, 2010 by martthebass

[Thunderitter]

Here's my headless Lecompte 6 string. A very comfortable bass to play, sounds great and never had issues with being out position. (It's currently for sale to make way for some new acquistions!)

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Thunderitter' post='922718' date='Aug 12 2010, 01:43 PM']Here's my headless Lecompte 6 string. A very comfortable bass to play, sounds great and never had issues with being out position. (It's currently for sale to make way for some new acquistions!)

[/quote]

Is it just me or is it shaped like an elephant? With it's trunk sticking out?

I don't usually like single cut basses but with the controls on top it makes more sense..... stunning looking finish too.


(And no, I'm not shaped like an elephant although if I get much heavier...)

[Alpha-Dave]

I have the headless singlecut as above; the neck is glued in to the body and with a large amount of material moved for the ramp the body is particularly resonant when played unplugged, but to be honest I don't think it makes a huge difference to the final tone that comes out of the speakers.

I didn't have an issue at all going headless, possibly because there's a volute on the back of the neck where the head stock should be, so it's an easy reference to find without looking.

I've had far more issues with basses with short upper horns making the neck stick out further than on a normal bass (Mark King ones are typical) so I think it may be a horn issue rather than a headless issue.

[MoonBassAlpha]

Now that IS a "Marmite" bass!

[Dood]

[quote name='dub' post='920719' date='Aug 10 2010, 03:21 PM']Has anyone had much experience of headless singlecut basses?

I know Sei make a model like this and I would imagine that the extra mass and rigidity would make up for the lack of mass that a headstock would bring, but I've never had a chance to try one.[/quote]


I have both a headed singlecut bass and also a Headless double cut. Both made of exactly the same materials. They also have exactly the same electronics. Tonally, they share certain similar aspects, but they *do* sound different as instruments. Does the 'singlecut' part of the body offer much to the tone? Well - more of the body is directly connected to the neck of the singlecut, so probably a small amount of tone is transferred through the join. However, changing the pickups or electronics would make FAR more difference to the voice of an instrument than the small section of wood in the top corner of the body does. Not that you'd ever be able to tell - as two instruments of exactly the same spec will always sound different. I've had a pair of 6 string Tobias basses. The only difference was the colour - but both had an obviously different voice. I think if on was a singlecut, it'd make no difference whatsoever.

Finally, it'd be wrong for me to leave the thread without mentioning my good friend, Mr Jon Shuker. Here's the 'Headless' gallery from his website enjoy! ;o)

[url="http://www.shukerguitars.co.uk/hlgal.htm"]http://www.shukerguitars.co.uk/hlgal.htm[/url]

My Shuker basses:

[dub]

There's even more choice in wooden headless basses than I imagined.
If the singlecut doesn't make a huge difference to tone I would imagine that most of the other designs would be lighter, which is a good thing for the back.

[OutToPlayJazz]

The only thing you'll need to watch for on a headless singlecut is whether the maker has but a nice thumb recess behind the joined top "horn". The Streamline has one of these and it makes playing in the higher reaches of the neck a pure pleasure. You really need this groove above the neck curve if you want a single cut.

As far as I can tell, there is no difference in rigidity between a headless and headed bass. If anything, the headless bass has more string tension - Particularly in the case of my headless 5's with a hugely tight B-string - Or perhaps that's the rigidity of the graphite neck coming into play?

So, being the third Streamline owner on this thread, I can also highly recommend headless singlecuts

[7string]

I'm in a minority here, but although I like the look of headless bass it's the string thing that puts me off.

I had a Hohner back in the day which needed double-ball end strings. Great idea and string changes were really fast! Without that though, I really don't like the idea of string clamps to enable you to use 'normal' strings. I'd just be waiting for a clamp to fail and a string to come flying out.

Probably paranoia, but a point nevertheless

[Dood]

[quote name='dub' post='926250' date='Aug 16 2010, 10:58 AM']There's even more choice in wooden headless basses than I imagined.
If the singlecut doesn't make a huge difference to tone I would imagine that most of the other designs would be lighter, which is a good thing for the back.[/quote]


I don't think you'd notice the slight weight difference of the extra bit of wood on the upper horn to make any difference. Most basses have quite a slim upper horn anyway. I actually think that the singlecut is more comfortable than an upper horn. It's something you have to try out to understand! That flat back just sits against the body a bit nicer!

[evoman]

[quote name='dub' post='920719' date='Aug 10 2010, 03:21 PM']Has anyone had much experience of headless singlecut basses?

I know Sei make a model like this and I would imagine that the extra mass and rigidity would make up for the lack of mass that a headstock would bring, but I've never had a chance to try one.[/quote]

You should also check out the Status Streamline for an extreme headless 'singlecut'. I am not 100% sure why the design is singlecut like, but I imagine is largely for ergonomics (gives you a strap connection further away from the tiny body without the crazy boomerang rig like the Steinberger).

[Larmer]

[quote name='evoman' post='928265' date='Aug 17 2010, 11:53 PM']You should also check out the Status Streamline for an extreme headless 'singlecut'. I am not 100% sure why the design is singlecut like, but I imagine is largely for ergonomics (gives you a strap connection further away from the tiny body without the crazy boomerang rig like the Steinberger).[/quote]

It's definitely for ergonomics. With the 'Single Cut' design it balances on your body like any other bass.
It doesn't suffer from the usual Steinberger problems, especially reaching for the first frets.

[dub]

Well that's even more praise for the streamline. Do you know of and good recordings of one played with finger style? I've come across a few slap recordings so far but that's it.

[peted]

I've had experience of Singlecut and headless, just not on the same bass! I think the Singlecut thing is just for looks really. I haven't owned my custom Shuker for long enough to make any judgement on whether it adds to neck stability or not. I haven't owned a headless, but the ones I've tried have felt great for balance on the shoulder and would be a dream to play for those 1 hour+ sets. I do have the same problem initially of trying to compensate for the headstock on a headless and getting my finger positions wrong for the first few minutes

Oh, and I have this in my collection of pictures of Jon's work. I don't own this bass but it does look gorgeous:
[attachment=56954:scstockfull2.jpg]

Edited August 18, 2010 by peted

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='dub' post='928621' date='Aug 18 2010, 01:37 PM']Well that's even more praise for the streamline. Do you know of and good recordings of one played with finger style? I've come across a few slap recordings so far but that's it.[/quote]

If I had even the faintest idea how to get a laptop to record mine, I'd do something fingerstylee for you.
Good might not be the most appropriate adjective, though!
Gimme a clue and I'll have a try. Might take a while- Wife's in hospital, kids are off and I'm in the middle of decorating!

[Lfalex v1.1]

Okay, think I've got it (kind of) sorted. A little bit of noise (from the mixer meter LEDs, I think) but it'll serve its purpose.
Will post [i][something[/i] by the end of the day. Hope it'll help!
Alex.

[Lfalex v1.1]

A day late, a dollar short, scrappy and recorded into my notebook whilst my wife and I are having a domestic with kids crying and me standing amidst the partly wallpapered dining room being attacked by the kitten...
Sorry, I clipped the mic input a bit at one point.
Only short WMA (so uncompressed) clips, recorded with no eq unless otherwise stated, and then onlt from the bass. No effects or compression were used.

[attachment=57052:SSL_Both..._with_eq.wma]
[attachment=57049:SSL_stan...ge_No_eq.wma]
[attachment=57051:SSL_My_p..._with_eq.wma]
[attachment=57048:SSL_stan...ps_No_eq.wma]
[attachment=57050:SSL_stan...ck_No_eq.wma]

Hope they help a bit.

Alex.

[dub]

Thanks Alex
I really appreciate the clips. That's above and beyond the call of duty!
There's some kind of aliasing going on which I suspect is something to do with playback of WMA through quicktime on a mac but I can hear the tone of the bass through that. I'll have another listen on a PC.

[Lfalex v1.1]

No worries!
The aliasing [i]might[/i] be a bit of noise from the LED meters on my mixer. The soundcard seems to pick them up...
PC playback could help, though.