John East Stingray preamp: can it do the 2EQ and 3EQ thang?

[mcnach]

It sounds like a weird question, I know... until you've tried both 3EQ and 2EQ Stingrays.

I have a 2EQ Stingray that I love. But often I really want the sound I get from a 3EQ too. At the moment I get that through my souped-up OLP MM2. It really sounds great. But it's two basses. Oh, wouldn't it be great to have both preamps (so to speak) in a single great bass? :wub:

I read that the John East preamp, when you set the mids flat, acts like a 2EQ.

Anybody has experience on both the very characteristic Stingray 2EQ and the 3EQ, and the John East preamp?

I love the 2EQ... I don't want to lose that to have a 3EQ, and the 2EQ is *not* just like a 3EQ with the mids flat, it has a particular response that is very very nice.

So, by installing a John East preamp, would I be able to still have the 2EQ sounds/function as before... but with the addition of a mid control when I chose to use it? Or is it just a 3-band EQ?

[cocco]

Oooh good question. Colour me intrigued

[Prime_BASS]

Mentioned something like this in Musicman20s thread on his next bass choice.

It'd be great if their was a mid bypass feature, so you had best of both. However I believe that even if you set Mids flat, it would just react like a 3eq with flat mids..... No?

I think the difference between the 2eq and 3eq, is that the 3eq has that middle amplifier stage, or something like that.

So maybe a bypass feature would work.
I had one those varitone kits, and that had a bypass, it must be possible for an active circuit. Although I don't think anything like that exists.

I guess the only way to tell is by trying it yourself, if it's not what you want, I'd be happy to buy it off you for a basschat discount ?

[Musicman20]

Sounds great to me, but I don't ever mod basses. If they aren't good enough before, I don't buy them. Most players like to mod, but I like them stock.

Stingray pups and pre-amps are expensive as they are, and do it how they should, so personally I'd stick with Rays as stock.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='920218' date='Aug 10 2010, 12:14 AM']I guess the only way to tell is by trying it yourself, if it's not what you want, I'd be happy to buy it off you for a basschat discount ? [/quote]

Nice try
It's a little expensive for me just to try it to see if it works. It costs considerably more than any of my OLPs!

On the website it says the 3-band preamp is based on the original 2-band, plus an added mid control. So set flat, it should do what I want. *if* they really tried to replicate the Stingray's 2EQ preamp.

I guess I'll probably just call the company and talk to someone, maybe John East himself? From comments in the forum he seems to be pretty good when it comes to service.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='920222' date='Aug 10 2010, 12:18 AM']Stingray pups and pre-amps are expensive as they are, and do it how they should, so personally I'd stick with Rays as stock.[/quote]

I think the Stingray does what it should already.

I just want it to do other things too. I'm evil to basses that way.

The thing is... when I play live, how many in the audience would ever care, or even notice, a difference between a 2EQ and a 3EQ Stingray?
When I think of it that way... it seems that sometimes we spend a ridiculous amount of effort (and cash) to achieve very minute -in the large scheme of music things- effects.

[simon1964]

I was on my hols when you posted this, so I've only just seen this thread!

I've fitted the John East 3 band in my Ray (it was originally a 2 band).

Personally, I think the JE is a fantastic bit of kit. With the mids flat you do get, to my ears, the classic 2 band ray tone. But the option of boosting the mids gives that extra versatility, and a bit more clout when playing live. Its really well made as well.

I owned a three band ray a few years back (which was aslo great!), but the JE pre sounds much more like the 2 band stock MM pre to my ears. Well worth trying if you like the classic 2 band tone, but want a bit of extra versatility.

Edited August 21, 2010 by simon1964

[mcnach]

[quote name='simon1964' post='932273' date='Aug 21 2010, 09:11 PM']I was on my hols when you posted this, so I've only just seen this thread!

I've fitted the John East 3 band in my Ray (it was originally a 2 band).

Personally, I think the JE is a fantastic bit of kit. With the mids flat you do get, to my ears, the classic 2 band ray tone. But the option of boosting the mids gives that extra versatility, and a bit more clout when playing live. Its really well made as well.

I owned a three band ray a few years back (which was aslo great!), but the JE pre sounds much more like the 2 band stock MM pre to my ears. Well worth trying if you like the classic 2 band tone, but want a bit of extra versatility.[/quote]


Hey, cheers for that!
I have ordered the JE preamp already. In fact it arrived yesterday, but with nobody at home and being unable to pick up until Monday, I haven't yet had the chance to try it. But you experience sounds promising (and just what the preamp is supposed to sound like, but always good to hear from an independent customer). Can't wait!

[JTUK]

I have a JE retro01 deluxe on my Jazz..and I think it does a better impression of the full-on SR sound than the original.
Far smoother to my ears.

Very powerful pre, IMO, and you could argue that there is too much variation, but as I don't chase all sorts of sounds, and stick with just the one set up in sound-check, this is not a problem.
Top pre amps, IMO.

[mcnach]

I just installed the preamp and had a quick whirl...

NICE!!!

It's definitely "tighter" than the original 2EQ it substitutes. Good definition when increasing the bass control, and the treble is very much like the 2EQ as far as I can tell. Although the controls don't work the same way, I can get the 2EQ sound I liked here, or close enough... but then I can control the mids too. And that's where this preamp excels, I think.

Sweepable mids. Wow. I forgot to look whether it's set at 100-1000 or 200-2000Hz, but I could ignore the treble control and simply have a bass and sweepable mids. With the sweep at minimum you get a great punchy tone if you just add a touch of boost. And it goes high enough that I'd be happy using that as treble control.
I'll have to play around with it a bit, but I love what it's done to my Stingray.

[Darkstrike]

Ooh! Sounds glike its a keeper.

Tell me, there's no center detents(right?), and on his site it says that there is "more boost than cut", does that mean to have a non boosted eq, you have to have it rolled less than half up, but more than all off?

Also it says of the Bass eq, "Conversly the cut characteristic is shelving, having an essentially flat response from 30 - 100Hz, when fully cut."

Does that mean that the bass is boost only?


I'm honestly quite confused, I'll admit I don't know a heap about eqs, or the theroy behind them at least.

[JTUK]

For my Retro01 deluxe..

Bsss is boost only, Treble in centred and indented as is the mid.
Also the treble control..which is stacked on the bass boost control, it has a presence pull-out as well..

[stingrayPete1977]

Its gone in the EB then mcnash? I hope it gets you off them damn OLP's now then!
Im glad you are pleased with it though mate,nice one keep us updated on it.

[Old Horse Murphy]

Got one for sale here if anyone is interested:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=100364&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=100364&hl=[/url]

[mcnach]

[quote name='Darkstrike' post='939006' date='Aug 28 2010, 08:12 PM']Ooh! Sounds glike its a keeper.

Tell me, there's no center detents(right?), and on his site it says that there is "more boost than cut", does that mean to have a non boosted eq, you have to have it rolled less than half up, but more than all off?

Also it says of the Bass eq, "Conversly the cut characteristic is shelving, having an essentially flat response from 30 - 100Hz, when fully cut."

Does that mean that the bass is boost only?


I'm honestly quite confused, I'll admit I don't know a heap about eqs, or the theroy behind them at least.[/quote]


Keeper it is.
It is definitely different to the MM 3EQ from what I remember (never owned one myself, only tried them in shops and borrowed one at a jam for a song). I wasn't too taken by the original 3EQ. I mean, it's actually quite nice, I *love* a Stingray in any shape colour or form, but found it a bit not-quite-enough "oomphy", whilst the 2EQ had tons of "oomph".
It is very different to the Seymour Duncan 3-band, which I own and love (in an OLP).
The 2EQ was very nice... but I guess I prefer a bit more control over the mids, and this one retains a lot of the character of the 2EQ plus gives you lots of control over the mids.

"More boost than cut": Not sure how it actually works. There is a centre detent on all controls except the mid-frequency sweep control. The blurb states the mids set flat, on the detent, means the mid section of the preamp does nothing. I don't think it says that on the bass/treble controls... and one would expect the detent to be flat... but my preamp has a bypass switch installed, and there is a difference in tone between passive and active with all controls set flat, so I'd assume centre is not exactly flat.

All controls are boost and cut. But the bass/treble seem to give you much of the sound you can get on the 2EQ (without centre detents, bass being only boost, etc), you just find it with the knobs at a different position.
I also find that whilst the 2EQ bass could get a bit boomy, the JE is "tighter" and has a lot of body without getting boomy.

This is all from playing it for about one hour on Saturday evening... so I may not be ultra accurate, but that's my recolection of the sounds right now.

The SD preamp is hotter. A lot hotter (at least when coupled to a SD alnico pickup). It sounds more like the original 3EQ, but a bit more aggressive and fatter, which is why I liked it. The JE is quite different. I like both. Both tell you "stingray" when you play, but in different accents

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='939194' date='Aug 29 2010, 09:24 AM']Its gone in the EB then mcnash? I hope it gets you off them damn OLP's now then!
Im glad you are pleased with it though mate,nice one keep us updated on it.[/quote]


Yep, into this:





About getting off the OLPs... no chance!
I love those basses. My main OLP is likely to remain my main bass, certainly still the one I'll play with the RHCP tribute band. Although I can see the Stingray now taking the place of a close second favourite. With the JE preamp now it doesn't need to feel ashamed next to the OLP

I started making some clips at the weekend but the strings on the OLP were so old (finger cheese and rust over 18 month sof heavy usage does dull things noticeably!) that the comparison was a bit unfair (new strings on Stingray). So newly restrung I'll make some short clips again.

Coming soon...

My OLP-MM family, very proud of it regardless of their origins :

[Darkstrike]

[quote name='mcnach' post='940150' date='Aug 30 2010, 05:54 PM']Keeper it is.
It is definitely different to the MM 3EQ from what I remember (never owned one myself, only tried them in shops and borrowed one at a jam for a song). I wasn't too taken by the original 3EQ. I mean, it's actually quite nice, I *love* a Stingray in any shape colour or form, but found it a bit not-quite-enough "oomphy", whilst the 2EQ had tons of "oomph".
It is very different to the Seymour Duncan 3-band, which I own and love (in an OLP).
The 2EQ was very nice... but I guess I prefer a bit more control over the mids, and this one retains a lot of the character of the 2EQ plus gives you lots of control over the mids.

"More boost than cut": Not sure how it actually works. There is a centre detent on all controls except the mid-frequency sweep control. The blurb states the mids set flat, on the detent, means the mid section of the preamp does nothing. I don't think it says that on the bass/treble controls... and one would expect the detent to be flat... but my preamp has a bypass switch installed, and there is a difference in tone between passive and active with all controls set flat, so I'd assume centre is not exactly flat.

All controls are boost and cut. But the bass/treble seem to give you much of the sound you can get on the 2EQ (without centre detents, bass being only boost, etc), you just find it with the knobs at a different position.
I also find that whilst the 2EQ bass could get a bit boomy, the JE is "tighter" and has a lot of body without getting boomy.

This is all from playing it for about one hour on Saturday evening... so I may not be ultra accurate, but that's my recolection of the sounds right now.

The SD preamp is hotter. A lot hotter (at least when coupled to a SD alnico pickup). It sounds more like the original 3EQ, but a bit more aggressive and fatter, which is why I liked it. The JE is quite different. I like both. Both tell you "stingray" when you play, but in different accents [/quote]
Fantastic! Cheers for the in depth reply! Glad to hear you like it!

Certanly sounds good, and good that there are detents in the bass/treble, one time I'm very glad to be wrong.

I'm having a bass made with one in it, and now I'm looking even more forward to it!

[Darkstrike]

[quote name='mcnach' post='940188' date='Aug 30 2010, 06:35 PM']My OLP-MM family, very proud of it regardless of their origins :

[/quote]
Now thats a hell of a collection!

[stingrayPete1977]

Thats a great Stingray now then as it looks retro like a pre EB but with the chamfeured body and a sound [b]you [/b]like.Nice one looking forward to the clips!