TC Electronics - Potential new 'Amp Tweaker' for the RH450. Testing to commence very soon!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='829510' date='May 6 2010, 12:26 PM']True, true...

I'm one of the people who think TC got the parameters right first time, but I can see why some people might want more sparkly sizzle..[/quote]

+1, im not for lots of sizzle, and the RH sounds right to me as it is, but Im a sucker for options! A tiny bit more high end might be nice for certain styles.

[stevie]

Call me cynical, but could the members of the test group have been selected because they are all very heavy posters on internet discussion lists? Perhaps the answer could be in the last line of the message from TC.

"Our test is fully official and you are free to discuss this with anybody out there."

I'm not knocking it. Just saying......

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='stevie' post='829606' date='May 6 2010, 01:59 PM']Call me cynical, but could the members of the test group have been selected because they are all very heavy posters on internet discussion lists? Perhaps the answer could be in the last line of the message from TC.

"Our test is fully official and you are free to discuss this with anybody out there."

I'm not knocking it. Just saying......[/quote]
Yep, I believe that's the case - It was a TB-derived thing.

[stevie]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='829652' date='May 6 2010, 02:48 PM']Yep, I believe that's the case - It was a TB-derived thing.[/quote]
In which case, would it be unreasonable to speculate that the value of said testers lies more in the amount of publicity they can generate for the product rather than in the actual value of their opinions to the company?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='stevie' post='829684' date='May 6 2010, 03:15 PM']In which case, would it be unreasonable to speculate that the value of said testers lies more in the amount of publicity they can generate for the product rather than in the actual value of their opinions to the company?[/quote]
Maybe there's an element of truth in that, but I disagree that it's the primary objective, because:

A ) There's no guarantee it's going to get released to the market - they've made that clear from the start.
B ) The people involved were giving it enough publicity as it is - if they were after more publicity, surely they'd give it to people who weren't yet engaged..?
C ) As far as I'm aware, it came about as a result of the thread on TB, where KJung & co. said 'wouldn't it be nice if...?' - and lo - it happened...
D) Have you seen KJung's analysis of stuff? I can barely think if a better candidate...

Personally, I think it's good that TC are involving real bass players in their R&D....

Edited May 6, 2010 by wateroftyne

[Musicman20]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='829690' date='May 6 2010, 03:20 PM']Maybe there's an element of truth in that, but I disagree that it's the primary objective, because:

A ) There's no guarantee it's going to get released to the market - they've made that clear from the start.
B ) The people involved were giving it enough publicity as it is - if they were after more publicity, surely they'd give it to people who weren't yet engaged..?
C ) As far as I'm aware, it came about as a result of the thread on TB, where KJung & co. said 'wouldn't it be nice if...?' - and lo - it happened...
D) Have you seen KJung's analysis of stuff? I can barely think if a better candidate...

Personally, I think it's good that TC are involving real bass players in their R&D....[/quote]

This is basically it. KJung is very critical of every aspect, and if he doesnt like it, he will say so. Not one of us gaining anything out of this, we just enjoy the amp and the possibilities. Yes, I agree, its mainly the busy posters on talkbass, but thats the point, we all not only know a lot about the amp but also know what extra we would like out of it.

Vic is also great at these reviews. Myself and the other chaps are more everyday players but we know what we like.

[Musicman20]

Hi everyone

Ive managed to start fiddling around with the top end again, as per how Ken (KJung) did a few weeks back.

Now, Im not one for massive high end anyway. A nice sweet treble but with a warmth is what seems to work for me. Anything else is just a little 'piercing'.

I do think TC have pretty much nailed the high end on this amp. But, I do think the addition of being able to tweak this for whichever bass/band setting/user requirements is a very good concept, and I would still like to be able to open up that high end. Its a good option, even though personally I wouldnt use it that often.

Im going to try out the compressor 'settings' that Uffe sent out soon. I must admit before this amp, I never used compression, but Im finding a few clicks on the Spectracomp can have very nice results.

Im really enjoying just trying new things out.

I have a full rehearsal tonight with my originals band (very complex modern punk...) so I will be seeing how things go with the TC amp. The main guitarist has been away teaching in India, but now we are ready to get going as a full outfit again and I think he will be very impressed with this TC gear! I will make sure he tries out a Polytune (whether it be the App or the Pedal itself!).

[Musicman20]

A much more interesting update today!

Uffe from TC has just emailed me a new update to the program.

This is the part I was most interested in!

Now, I can actually changed the 'baked in' tone of the amp, just like TC did with the Staccato 51. This then means you have full control of the EQ as normal once its saved onto the amp, but at completely different frequencies compared to the normal RH450 settings. Im assuming this means the world is your oyster with regards to tonal goals. You want a more clean Markbass tone with more sheen on the high end, youve got it! Then back to the normal RH450 settings once you plug back into the PC and restore the settings.

I will let you all know once Ive had a play around.

[LawrenceH]

That does sound interesting...do you have an option to effectively take the pre-amp out of the equation and see how the power amp sounds completely 'neutral' - it'd be good to know the difference between that and the stock voicing which to my ears doesn't sound flat at all.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='853684' date='Jun 1 2010, 03:40 PM']That does sound interesting...do you have an option to effectively take the pre-amp out of the equation and see how the power amp sounds completely 'neutral' - it'd be good to know the difference between that and the stock voicing which to my ears doesn't sound flat at all.[/quote]

Ohh, never though of that! Hmm, ill check it out.

[Musicman20]

Hi chaps

So far im really enjoying changing the parameters! I havent gigged them with the changes as yet, but plenty of rehearsals.

I realise some users may not require all these extras for the RH450, but personally I think if TC release this as an option to use with the RH450, them it would attract those who really like to tweak. Ultimate flexibility!

Ive been attempting to try and match the Staccato 51' (as close as I can) with what Ive heard about it and the test I had with one for a while in a store. All good fun

I never once though 2-3 years ago that amps would come this far and sound this good in such a small slick package.

Thanks

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='853669' date='Jun 1 2010, 03:22 PM']A much more interesting update today!

Uffe from TC has just emailed me a new update to the program.

This is the part I was most interested in!

Now, I can actually changed the 'baked in' tone of the amp, just like TC did with the Staccato 51. This then means you have full control of the EQ as normal once its saved onto the amp, but at completely different frequencies compared to the normal RH450 settings. Im assuming this means the world is your oyster with regards to tonal goals. You want a more clean Markbass tone with more sheen on the high end, youve got it! Then back to the normal RH450 settings once you plug back into the PC and restore the settings.

I will let you all know once Ive had a play around.[/quote]

very interesting, does this all mean you can mimick any amp out there, provided you knew the details of what amp you were mimicking.

All very nice but at the same time I think, if I wanted that marbass clear high or ampeg grit or orange warmth, I'd buy those amps in question, but this tweak aslo means you have all those option available no?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='863102' date='Jun 10 2010, 11:37 AM']very interesting, does this all mean you can mimick any amp out there, provided you knew the details of what amp you were mimicking.

All very nice but at the same time I think, if I wanted that marbass clear high or ampeg grit or orange warmth, I'd buy those amps in question, but this tweak aslo means you have all those option available no?[/quote]

Yeah, I think thats the idea. Its still the 'TC' sound, but if you like the Ampeg tone (more so the big SVTs) then you will definitely like this amp. WoT on this forum, a long time Mesa user, is really into the sound of the TC.

I wasnt convinced by the RH450 until I tested it out. It really does sound amazingly warm and 'tube' like, but with the articulation that digital can give you.

[dave_bass5]

wow, Vic and Ken. your in good company there.

Good luck with it and keep us posted. I just hope i dont get amp GAS now.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='863126' date='Jun 10 2010, 11:56 AM']Yeah, I think thats the idea. Its still the 'TC' sound, but if you like the Ampeg tone (more so the big SVTs) then you will definitely like this amp. WoT on this forum, a long time Mesa user, is really into the sound of the TC.

I wasnt convinced by the RH450 until I tested it out. It really does sound amazingly warm and 'tube' like, but with the articulation that digital can give you.[/quote]

I guess the proof is in the pudding. SVT sound isn't me, I'm more a big 2x15 vintage warm sound myself. I live the sound my jag and jazz has through my ad140, to me it's tonal bliss.

How would the classic 450 compare to the rebel head? I'm not one to mess with eq or amp settings, as long as it can do warm and a decent flat response it's good.

[EBS_freak]

Isn't the difference between the Staccato and the RH450 the preamp settings. Presumably if TC divuldged the settings for the Staccato, you could get the exact same amp from the RH450?

Preferred the Staccato over the RH450 when I tested them out, but the tweakability factor of these amps to get my "amp voice" is appealing. Won't be purchasing unless this software comes out though as out the box, they don't quite do it for me yet.

Great show by TC though... they really have come from nowhere and taken it by storm!

PS - still intriuged as to why you can run 3 x 8 ohm cabs from TC yet only 2 from any other manufacturer. What's that about?!

Edited June 10, 2010 by EBS_freak

[poptart]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='863539' date='Jun 10 2010, 06:06 PM']Isn't the difference between the Staccato and the RH450 the preamp settings. Presumably if TC divuldged the settings for the Staccato, you could get the exact same amp from the RH450?

Preferred the Staccato over the RH450 when I tested them out, but the tweakability factor of these amps to get my "amp voice" is appealing. Won't be purchasing unless this software comes out though as out the box, they don't quite do it for me yet.

Great show by TC though... they really have come from nowhere and taken it by storm!

PS - still intriuged as to why you can run 3 x 8 ohm cabs from TC yet only 2 from any other manufacturer. What's that about?![/quote]

Many class D amps are stable down to 2.6ohm (EA, TC have confirmed this), however due to variations between cabinets they do not make this public knowledge nor recommend it, and there you have it.

Mark

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='poptart' post='863544' date='Jun 10 2010, 06:10 PM']Many class D amps are stable down to 2.6ohm (EA, TC have confirmed this), however due to variations between cabinets they do not make this public knowledge nor recommend it, and there you have it.

Mark[/quote]

Ah OK. So I presume that they have tested with their own cabs and other cabs to prove that their cabs provide a high enough load and others don't? Or is the cynic in me thinking it's a ploy to sell more of their cabs?!!!

[poptart]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='863546' date='Jun 10 2010, 06:13 PM']Ah OK. So I presume that they have tested with their own cabs and other cabs to prove that their cabs provide a high enough load and others don't? Or is the cynic in me thinking it's a ploy to sell more of their cabs?!!![/quote]

It's not a ploy, the reality is that most domestic bass cabs are not exactly 4 or 8ohm, plus as you load the cabs some vary dramatically in impedance (another whole topic) however there are cabs which are more stable and consistent. The eminence loaded TC cabs are such, as are the EA cabs for example. Personally I do not recommend or advise running any amp down to 2ohm or thereabouts as you can a big strain on the system which can cause premature failure if pushed too hard.

Mark

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='poptart' post='863568' date='Jun 10 2010, 06:26 PM']It's not a ploy, the reality is that most domestic bass cabs are not exactly 4 or 8ohm, plus as you load the cabs some vary dramatically in impedance (another whole topic) however there are cabs which are more stable and consistent. The eminence loaded TC cabs are such, as are the EA cabs for example. Personally I do not recommend or advise running any amp down to 2ohm or thereabouts as you can a big strain on the system which can cause premature failure if pushed too hard.

Mark[/quote]

The heat, the heat! All adds to the onstage pyrotechnics!

[poptart]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='863577' date='Jun 10 2010, 06:32 PM']The heat, the heat! All adds to the onstage pyrotechnics! [/quote]

Brings a whole new meaning to the expression "going out with bang" ;-)

Mark

[Musicman20]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='863539' date='Jun 10 2010, 06:06 PM']Isn't the difference between the Staccato and the RH450 the preamp settings. Presumably if TC divuldged the settings for the Staccato, you could get the exact same amp from the RH450?

Preferred the Staccato over the RH450 when I tested them out, but the tweakability factor of these amps to get my "amp voice" is appealing. Won't be purchasing unless this software comes out though as out the box, they don't quite do it for me yet.

Great show by TC though... they really have come from nowhere and taken it by storm!

PS - still intriuged as to why you can run 3 x 8 ohm cabs from TC yet only 2 from any other manufacturer. What's that about?![/quote]


I think its a slightly easier and tame version of what TC used to make the Staccato (and probably the RH450 baked in tone) so yep Im thinking you can pretty much nail the Staccato 51 with an RH450.

I think there are a fair few players like yourself who would like this software to be made a product to either be shipped with the amp and/or an accessory you can buy with the cable/etc so you can realy open up a flat tone you want. I would definitely like to see it hit the market!

I can see why certain players will prefer the Staccato voicing, and there are some chaps talking on Talkbass about which they prefer. I must admit I quite liked them both, but I went with the run of the mill RH450.

I agree on how well they have done. A few years back, no one would have expected this, and all of a sudden, the TC amps are getting as much coverage as some of the really big players in the market. I think they're involvement with the players has worked wonders as it shows they are willing to listen to what we want. They are also really friendly and helpful with emails which is a big help.

I admit, the 3 x TC cabinets is a strange one, but as per Mark above, its because TC are confident about their cabinet ratings. It states in the manual quite clearly that the RH450/Staccato can power 3 x TC cabinets with no problems, and it even gives you examples of how to stack them. I have yet to try this but Im definitely going to at some point.

[poptart]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='864021' date='Jun 11 2010, 09:03 AM']I think its a slightly easier and tame version of what TC used to make the Staccato (and probably the RH450 baked in tone) so yep Im thinking you can pretty much nail the Staccato 51 with an RH450.

I think there are a fair few players like yourself who would like this software to be made a product to either be shipped with the amp and/or an accessory you can buy with the cable/etc so you can realy open up a flat tone you want. I would definitely like to see it hit the market!

I can see why certain players will prefer the Staccato voicing, and there are some chaps talking on Talkbass about which they prefer. I must admit I quite liked them both, but I went with the run of the mill RH450.

I agree on how well they have done. A few years back, no one would have expected this, and all of a sudden, the TC amps are getting as much coverage as some of the really big players in the market. I think they're involvement with the players has worked wonders as it shows they are willing to listen to what we want. They are also really friendly and helpful with emails which is a big help.

I admit, the 3 x TC cabinets is a strange one, but as per Mark above, its because TC are confident about their cabinet ratings. It states in the manual quite clearly that the RH450/Staccato can power 3 x TC cabinets with no problems, and it even gives you examples of how to stack them. I have yet to try this but Im definitely going to at some point.[/quote]

I have had the RH450 powering 3, 410s in the shop, that moves some air :-0

The tuning on the Staccato is fairly extreme IMHO and suits the player who is using a bass and technique similar to Rocco (eg single coil bridge sound played over the bridge) or those that want a more scooped sound with massive low end and sparkly highs, for most the more earthy tones of the RH450 and Classic seem to be perfect and the tuning done by the pros at TC is bang on IMO, IME.

Mark

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='poptart' post='864082' date='Jun 11 2010, 09:58 AM']I have had the RH450 powering 3, 410s in the shop, that moves some air :-0

The tuning on the Staccato is fairly extreme IMHO and suits the player who is using a bass and technique similar to Rocco (eg single coil bridge sound played over the bridge) or those that want a more scooped sound with massive low end and sparkly highs, for most the more earthy tones of the RH450 and Classic seem to be perfect and the tuning done by the pros at TC is bang on IMO, IME.

Mark[/quote]

3x4x10s = nice

I would like to get both amps on a scope to see the difference in the pres!

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='864021' date='Jun 11 2010, 09:03 AM']I think its a slightly easier and tame version of what TC used to make the Staccato (and probably the RH450 baked in tone) so yep Im thinking you can pretty much nail the Staccato 51 with an RH450.

I think there are a fair few players like yourself who would like this software to be made a product to either be shipped with the amp and/or an accessory you can buy with the cable/etc so you can realy open up a flat tone you want. I would definitely like to see it hit the market!

I can see why certain players will prefer the Staccato voicing, and there are some chaps talking on Talkbass about which they prefer. I must admit I quite liked them both, but I went with the run of the mill RH450.

I agree on how well they have done. A few years back, no one would have expected this, and all of a sudden, the TC amps are getting as much coverage as some of the really big players in the market. I think they're involvement with the players has worked wonders as it shows they are willing to listen to what we want. They are also really friendly and helpful with emails which is a big help.

I admit, the 3 x TC cabinets is a strange one, but as per Mark above, its because TC are confident about their cabinet ratings. It states in the manual quite clearly that the RH450/Staccato can power 3 x TC cabinets with no problems, and it even gives you examples of how to stack them. I have yet to try this but Im definitely going to at some point.[/quote]

sorry for the qoute guys.
I'm sure I've seen pictures on the huge ass talkbass thread with the either the RH450 or the classic450 powering 3 cabs.

I'm intrigued as to what kind of things you can set. I realise it has the tubetone voicing thingy, however would it be possible to change the whole voicing of the head from "vintage tubetone" to hi fi?

I know some people would like a hifi head with the amount of tweakable possibilties (I'm not one though)
things like this would be truelly useful, as then you would have an amp for everyone.

Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but could you have one of these tweaked tones be stored on the head and be able to switch between one preset to another using the memory bank things? As in I could change from my super glassy high to my low reggae slighty double bass tone setting on the fly?