Bo Millward Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) First off all any note passed the low E on a standard 4 string bass can be referred to as sub contra bass. But because 5 strings with a low B are becoming a bit of constant with modern bass players, I now think of sub contra as lower still than B. The term itself is pretty flexible with Contra meaning; “In opposition to something stated or expected; to the contrary“. So you can use it to define tunings that are considered lower than the norm. So if you had Low F# or C# on a six string bass with it tuned; C#, F#, B, E, A,D (low to high) with the top 3 strings being the bottom 3 of a regular 4 string. Thats Sub Contra! (Note; Extended Range Basses are not strictly Sub Contra basses, because ERB’s can have a larger than a standard 4 string range but with only higher strings. This retains the E as the lowest string and is not Sub Contra.) So is your Bass Sub Contra? If so what are you tuned to, what bass do you have, what strings do you use and what gear do you use for your live rig/recording set-up? I’m tuned F#, B, E, A, D on a Spector NS 5 through neck with a 35” scale. For strings I’m using Rotosound round wounds gauges 65, 85, 105, 135 and 175. For my live rig I run a Electro Harmonics Steel Leather with a Bass Big Muff into a DHA VT1-EQ-Bass-Drive that sends out a D.I. signal to the desk and a pre-amp signal to a Warwick Profet 3.1, that then drives a JHS 2x15 cab loaded with Celestion FTR15-4080FD’s. For recording I use my pedal board with the DHA VT1-EQ-Bass-Drive sending the D.I to the recording console. I found my set ups and bass works really well for the low F# but I’m still tweaking it. I’m just interested to see what others use and how you accommodate your sub contra bass? Got any F# issus? Edited September 11, 2009 by Bo Millward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I've only just got used to going down to low B! It's an interesting challenge learning how to use lower registers musically - what becoming apparent to me is conventional bass playing works best when mostly in the traditional register and as you go lower you need to think in a more orchestral manner, almost like being the pedalboard of a large pipe organ. Once you're that low the pitch becomes more clouded so the bassline no longer can stand alone as a counter-melody but acts almost solely as harmonic support function for everything above it. And likewise its rhythmic content becomes harder to discern. The amplification is an interesting challenge as well! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroman Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 4 string Precision, strung with steel ropes, tuned to low A Does that qualify? :brow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I quite liked Contra on the Nintendo NES, is that what you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 standard tuned 4 stringers. so thats a no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 who told you i'd been to nicaragua ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I'm sorry - all that went [i]straight[/i] over my head. I'm just an EADG numptie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='596201' date='Sep 12 2009, 12:25 AM']I'm sorry - all that went [i]straight[/i] over my head. I'm just an EADG numptie [/quote] i think what he said was- sub contra means below the stated or expected range. so BEADG was classed as sub contra cos the standard was always EADG. but these days people use BEADG as often as EADG. so he said he wouldn't class 5 strings as sub contra any more, and would we? then he was asking if any of us play sub contra, and what tunings we use. he uses F#BEAD, therefore he would be sub contra because even if you wouldnt class low B as sub contra any more, F# is even lower. i might have read it all wrong of course, but thats what i thought he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I'm normally tuned C#G#C#F#.... you tell me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Tait' post='596205' date='Sep 12 2009, 12:31 AM']i think what he said was- [i]Stuff[/i] i might have read it all wrong of course, but thats what i thought he said.[/quote] Thanks, Tait. Righty-ho! Crystal clear now. Totally understand. With the programme. So in answer to the OP... No I don't. I'm just getting in the way here, so I'll leave you building-shakers to it. Edited September 11, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='596211' date='Sep 12 2009, 12:44 AM']Thanks, Tait. Righty-ho - crystal clear now. Totally understand. With the programme. So... No I don't. I'm just getting in the way here, so I'll leave you building-shakers to it.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Millward Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 [quote name='retroman' post='595889' date='Sep 11 2009, 05:45 PM']4 string Precision, strung with steel ropes, tuned to low A Does that qualify? :brow:[/quote] Yeah man, your sub contra. What rig do you use then? [quote name='Tait' post='596205' date='Sep 12 2009, 12:31 AM']i think what he said was- sub contra means below the stated or expected range. so BEADG was classed as sub contra cos the standard was always EADG. but these days people use BEADG as often as EADG. so he said he wouldn't class 5 strings as sub contra any more, and would we? then he was asking if any of us play sub contra, and what tunings we use. he uses F#BEAD, therefore he would be sub contra because even if you wouldnt class low B as sub contra any more, F# is even lower. i might have read it all wrong of course, but thats what i thought he said.[/quote] Haha! Nice one for making sense out of my ramblings man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 [quote name='Bo Millward' post='596341' date='Sep 12 2009, 09:27 AM']Haha! Nice one for making sense out of my ramblings man![/quote] so i got it right then? sorry if i sounded rude calling you "he" whilst i wrote that paragraph by the way (rereading it, it sounds fairly rude to me), i just couldn't remember your name cos you're new and i haven't seen you post before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroman Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 [quote name='Bo Millward' post='596341' date='Sep 12 2009, 09:27 AM']Yeah man, your sub contra. What rig do you use then?[/quote] Ampeg SVT Classic with matching 610HLF cab For serious trouser flapping, I dig out my old Gibson EB2 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 I'm not sure my tuner works properly so I couldn't honestly tell you. I hope it's just standard EADG so I'm no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 I tuned ADGC, mostly used those lows for loads of bottom, if I was ever actually playing notey stuff, I'd be playing in standard bass range. In all the pics you can see me fretting around the 7th fret. Big giant custom tapered newtone strings and lots of speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='596971' date='Sep 13 2009, 12:29 AM']I tuned ADGC, mostly used those lows for loads of bottom, if I was ever actually [color="#FF0000"][b]playing notey stuff[/b], [/color]I'd be playing in standard bass range. In all the pics you can see me fretting around the 7th fret. Big giant custom tapered newtone strings and lots of speakers.[/quote] Finally, someone talking in a language I can understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Millward Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 [quote name='Tait' post='596613' date='Sep 12 2009, 03:48 PM']so i got it right then? sorry if i sounded rude calling you "he" whilst i wrote that paragraph by the way (rereading it, it sounds fairly rude to me), i just couldn't remember your name cos you're new and i haven't seen you post before![/quote] Haha no worrys man, I've only been on here a fue week, Dan Dood told us to check it out an it's a fair sick forum! [quote name='retroman' post='596677' date='Sep 12 2009, 05:15 PM']Ampeg SVT Classic with matching 610HLF cab For serious trouser flapping, I dig out my old Gibson EB2 though [/quote] Nice man, got any pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebeat Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='596201' date='Sep 12 2009, 12:25 AM']I'm sorry - all that went [i]straight[/i] over my head. I'm just an EADG numptie [/quote] ...you're one up on me...i'm more of an EAD numpty...i occasionally use the G when i fancy a change or just to remind me what it sounds like.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trent900 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='596207' date='Sep 12 2009, 12:34 AM']I'm normally tuned C#G#C#F#.... you tell me [/quote] I'm pretty sure that's just plain contra! I'd love to hear some playing using an F# string. I can't imagine what on earth it's used for, lower than that horrible sounding bottom A on a piano. My only delvings into 'sub contra', and only by a smidgeon, is detuning the B string to Bb for some songs. It does throw my fretting out a bit though having to think about Bb E A D G tuning. What styles of music are using these mentally low notes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 [quote name='trent900' post='597855' date='Sep 13 2009, 11:37 PM']I'm pretty sure that's just plain contra! I'd love to hear some playing using an F# string. I can't imagine what on earth it's used for, lower than that horrible sounding bottom A on a piano. My only delvings into 'sub contra', and only by a smidgeon, is detuning the B string to Bb for some songs. It does throw my fretting out a bit though having to think about Bb E A D G tuning. What styles of music are using these mentally low notes?[/quote] Doom Actually, doom rarely has the sophistication for low F#, don't actually know where that is useful. Can't really generate Doom SPLs with that sort of lows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Well, on occasion I tune to F# on a 4 string P-Bass. Not gigged in that tuning for ages though, I'm usually drop B, drop D or standard. All on 4 strings. If I had money for a decent 5 string I would buy one, no question. In my one instrumental band though I'm tuned to Drop D#/Eflat, which requires tuning up and down and the same time! I also don't really like drop tunings on the bass, it does throw your fretting off and took me a while to get used to. But young guitarists these days insist on them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 going down low is fine but you need to reproduce it faithfully...i feel some rigs do attentuate and corrupt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7string Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I have the low F# on my ACG 9 string. I've been trying to incorporated into my playing. At the moment, I'm using it for extra oomph in certain sections which works really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Millward Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 [quote name='trent900' post='597855' date='Sep 13 2009, 11:37 PM']I'm pretty sure that's just plain contra! I'd love to hear some playing using an F# string. I can't imagine what on earth it's used for, lower than that horrible sounding bottom A on a piano. My only delvings into 'sub contra', and only by a smidgeon, is detuning the B string to Bb for some songs. It does throw my fretting out a bit though having to think about Bb E A D G tuning. What styles of music are using these mentally low notes?[/quote] Djent is the style of music I play, it's a heavily rhythm based kind of progressive metal. Kinda like if SiKTh and Meshuggah had a kid. We use loads of polyrhythm’s and odd meter grooves coupled with Jazz melodies and harmonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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