Using column PA speakers as stage monitors?

[Beedster]

Probably a non starter but wondering if a) there are any potential issues and b) if anyone's tried it

 

I have a relatively small and lightweight Maui column PA that while pretty loud and decent is probably not quite big enough for the band/venue in question. The singer has a much larger old school Peavey PA that we're probably going to use instead. However neither system currently has any stage monitors and money's a little tight at present. Would it be madness to use the smaller PA facing the band as on-stage monitors, albeit with bass cut? There are only three mics on stage - vox, backing vox, and kick - all facing the back of the stage (no need for more on drums as it's a small venue and the drummer's solid). 

 

Thanks in advance 👍

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

No problem at all, I used to do this when touring in the '70s. Since our gigs were usually a full week I used to hang them in front of the band if there was available rigging.

[Beedster]

13 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

No problem at all, I used to do this when touring in the '70s. Since our gigs were usually a full week I used to hang them in front of the band if there was available rigging.

Thanks Bill, if it’s good enough for you it’s certainly good enough for us 👍

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Thanks. BTW, the columns I used were Shure Vocal Masters. They were too tall to work well as monitors, which I fixed by cutting them in half. That gave us four of them, so there were no dead spots on the stage. This was 1973-74, when monitors were still almost unheard of, so we were quite pleased to have them. I'm not saying I invented them by any means, but I'd never seen monitors used in clubs prior to that. They came about because the band had the Shures when I joined, while I brought along the JBL 4550 copies that I had built, so it was either figure out a use for the Shures or leave them in the van.

[Beedster]

3 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Thanks. BTW, the columns I used were Shure Vocal Masters. They were too tall to work well as monitors, which I fixed by cutting them in half. That gave us four of them, so there were no dead spots on the stage. This was 1973-74, when monitors were still almost unheard of, so we were quite pleased to have them. I'm not saying I invented them by any means, but I'd never seen monitors used in clubs prior to that. They came about because the band had the Shures when I joined, while I brought along the JBL 4550 copies that I had built, so it was either figure out a use for the Shures or leave them in the van.

 

That's a nice story, we were thinking along the same lines 'We've got two PAs, two's gotta be better than one, but how do we do it'  

[Happy Jack]

And yet ... and yet ...

 

The inherent Devil's Advocate built into me is asking, "Do you really need monitoring?".

 

Life is SO much simpler without, and for pubs'n'clubs I've never really seen the point.

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

And yet ... and yet ...

 

The inherent Devil's Advocate built into me is asking, "Do you really need monitoring?".

 

Life is SO much simpler without, and for pubs'n'clubs I've never really seen the point.

 

Decent point, but IMO we do Jack, we gigged without monitors last time out and both drummer and keyboard player struggled to hear the vocals and guitar (although to be clear, although they were probably the only two people in the venue if not the entire postcode who couldn't hear the guitar..... . If the set were more straight forward I think we'd get away with it, but we're doing Odelay by Beck in which a lot of changes in rhythm that also involve keyboard shenanigans and samples are cued by specific lyrics, and even in the rehearsal room - in which the sound is way easier to work with than the venue in question - the drummer is struggling to hear the vocals well.  

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

And yet ... and yet ...

 

The inherent Devil's Advocate built into me is asking, "Do you really need monitoring?".

 

Life is SO much simpler without, and for pubs'n'clubs I've never really seen the point.

 

....but I'd also welcome alternative solutions, although in-ear isn't an option for us 👍

[JPJ]

Two of the best gigs I’ve played for onstage sound have both used side-fill for monitoring. One, a local bar that is popular on both the national and international circuit for up and coming bands has monitors mounted from the ceiling both in front and to the side of you, where they are pointing directly at your ears instead of your knees. The second was a major bike festival where the floor monitors were supplemented with two stacks of side fill stage left and right.

[nilebodgers]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

And yet ... and yet ...

 

The inherent Devil's Advocate built into me is asking, "Do you really need monitoring?".

 

Life is SO much simpler without, and for pubs'n'clubs I've never really seen the point.

It’s a good question to ask. In a small venue at lower levels I’ve sometimes put the FOH speakers behind the band so that everyone just hears the main mix. This can sound really nice if the band can blend themselves and the singers aren’t struggling.

 

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

3 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

The inherent Devil's Advocate built into me is asking, "Do you really need monitoring?".

I can't imagine not having it.

[Happy Jack]

I guess it's what you're used to.

 

The drummer in my 3-piece covers band likes to have it, but I insist he brings the gear himself and he sets it up.

 

Similarly, the lead singer in my 5-piece soul band sometimes wants it (depends on the venue).

 

Apart from that, never.

 

It's not that I don't have decent floor monitors available (2 x QSC CP8, 1 x QSC CP10) but life's too short unless they're really necessary. 

 

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, nilebodgers said:

It’s a good question to ask. In a small venue at lower levels I’ve sometimes put the FOH speakers behind the band so that everyone just hears the main mix. This can sound really nice if the band can blend themselves and the singers aren’t struggling.

 

 

 

How do you avoid bleed from the PA into the mics, is it just careful positioning?