On Stage Projections

[police squad]

Does anyone use on stage projections with their band setup

showing either still images or video clips, or both

 

How do you do it please

We're thinking of something like this in U2 Tribe but I have no idea where to start

[BigRedX]

How much synchronisation do you want between the band performance and projections?

[police squad]

19 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

How much synchronisation do you want between the band performance and projections?

to be honest, I have no idea at this stage

we want to improve our visuals for the bigger gigs that we do

 

I suppose their will need to be some synchronisation. The whole gig is played to a click, so potentially could sync to that

[Franticsmurf]

I looked into it for our band, using a projector, a few years ago. The problem at the time was getting the projector far enough away from the screen for the image to be large enough while avoiding shadows from the band and keeping the image bright enough to work in anything other than a blacked out venue. We decided against it in the end (too expensive, needs someone to look after it if sits out in the audience, not practical for most of the venues we were playing). 

 

I haven't kept track of the technology since but you need to consider how you would place the projector (brightness drops off as the inverse square of distance) and whether the projector can compensate for 'keystoning' (if it projects at an angle, keystoning is the distortion introduced - most projectors can compensate to a certain degree). Back projection would be best as the distance to the screen will be less because the projector is not in front of the band - as long as you have enough distance behind the band which is usually not the case. 

[BigRedX]

What is generating your click and what else does it do?

 

Backing track? What application runs that?

 

Have you thought about what visuals you want and how they are going to be produced? Remember that anything you don't produce yourself will be subject to copyright and usage fees.

 

What sorts of venues are you playing? Ones where you have to supply the PA and lights or ones where that is provided by the venue? IME most venues with in-house PA and lighting systems also have a projector installed, all you have to do is find out what connection facilities they have and include yours as part of your technical rider.

 

Projection technology has moved on massively from what Franticsmurf is talking about. We supported a band earlier this month who ran video projections with the projector set up on stage just in front of the screen. Here's a photo of the stage set up:

 

 

The projector is the grey white box in the middle of the stage and was positioned level with the rack on the left and still filled the screen with video. However, if you have a drum kit that might limit your options on smaller stages. 

 

 

[police squad]

27 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

What is generating your click and what else does it do?

 

Backing track? What application runs that?

 

Have you thought about what visuals you want and how they are going to be produced? Remember that anything you don't produce yourself will be subject to copyright and usage fees.

 

What sorts of venues are you playing? Ones where you have to supply the PA and lights or ones where that is provided by the venue? IME most venues with in-house PA and lighting systems also have a projector installed, all you have to do is find out what connection facilities they have and include yours as part of your technical rider.

 

Projection technology has moved on massively from what Franticsmurf is talking about. We supported a band earlier this month who ran video projections with the projector set up on stage just in front of the screen. Here's a photo of the stage set up:

 

 

The projector is the grey white box in the middle of the stage and was positioned level with the rack on the left and still filled the screen with video. However, if you have a drum kit that might limit your options on smaller stages. 

 

 

The click track is on an ipad, some tracks are just a click and have no set length (drummer stops and starts) and some tracks have some keyboard augmentations on them and so are a set track

We only do gigs in venues that supply the PA and light systems, so proper venues but some have smaller stage areas than other

For example we recently played The Horn in St Albans. Fantastic PA and soundman but somewhat cramped on stage. 

Chinnery's in Southend is similar but a bigger stage

 

Thanks for chipping in on this too, it is much appreciated

[rushbo]

The Roxy Music tribute I play in has used projections for a couple of years now. We've made it as simple as it can be - I put together a three hour mp4 (edited on an excellent free programme called Shotcut) with appropriate, royalty free images and short video clips. We check with the venue well in advance to see if they have the facility to run it and about 70% of them do. We play 200-300 seater places  - some have a projector and some ask for us to bring a laptop with the mp4 pre-loaded. I've always got a couple of memory sticks in my gig bag with the file on, too. It's not synchronised to what we're playing, but it adds another visual element to our performance and we often get people saying how much they enjoyed the "film." Occasionally some of the "screens" that the images get projected on are basically white bedsheets (with stains and creases) but from a distance, they look fine.

 

My advice would be to get one done - it's quite a fun project - let the venues know you can provide one and always keep a copy handy, along with an HDMI lead or two. Ours is also available to download from our website.

Edited 20 hours ago by rushbo

[Stub Mandrel]

It's something I've been considering. I have two powerpoint projectors and something along the lines of what
@rushbo suggests would fit our vibe.

 

But yes like  @Franticsmurf says, for most of our venues placing the projector seems unworkable  

 

[lozkerr]

I've been pondering the idea of a video wall. My 80s band played a gig in front of one a few years ago, and our frontman's daughter very kindly created an MP4 of instantly-recognisable 80s films. We'll pass lightly over the licensing fee issue...

 

It worked really well. I'd have liked to include some more political footage - the Falklands war, the miners' strike, a few memorable Spitting Image sketches and so on - but the link between the music and the footage made quite a difference.

 

Video wall controllers aren't as expensive as they used to be, and second-hand flat-screen TVs could be used instead of pricey monitors, but including one involves (a) more gear to cart about, (b) a longer set-up time, (c) whoever is rigging the video wall needs to be done and dusted before the drummer and bass player need to set up and (d) most importantly, the video wall support needs to be stable enough so that it won't tip over and fall on the band. And it needs to be easy to fit-up and strike, too.

 

Not a simple ask. But if I can find solutions, it'll solve the problems with having to have projectors out front in just the right place.

[BigRedX]

15 hours ago, police squad said:

The click track is on an ipad, some tracks are just a click and have no set length (drummer stops and starts) and some tracks have some keyboard augmentations on them and so are a set track

We only do gigs in venues that supply the PA and light systems, so proper venues but some have smaller stage areas than other

For example we recently played The Horn in St Albans. Fantastic PA and soundman but somewhat cramped on stage. 

Chinnery's in Southend is similar but a bigger stage

 

Thanks for chipping in on this too, it is much appreciated

 

So for some songs the click is just for setting the tempo and nothing else. Do these songs always have the same structure and length? If not that will lead to synchronisation issues with the video.

 

If you are only playing places with in-house PA and lights then you'll find that most of the venues that could support video projection will already have some sort of system installed that is appropriate for the size of the venue. You may find that some of the older set-ups will result in people on stage casting shows and obscuring parts of the screen, and you'll have to decide if this is an acceptable compromise for your performance or if at those venues you would be better off with no back projections.

 

Unless you can find someone to produce all the imagery and videos it's probably going to take several months to implement, so I'd start by asking all the venues that you are playing in the meantime how their projection system works and what inputs are available and what formats they support. That will give you an idea on how to proceed. You could test the water by getting the venues to project your band logo while you play. We have one that is included in our technical rider in various formats, and if it gets lost, our singer has copies on his phone that can be emailed, texted or AirDropped to the lighting engineer while we are setting up.

 

Here's a couple of shots of my band with our logo projected onto a screen behind us. This first one is from a fairly small venue and as you can see we are obscuring part of the screen and projection:

 

Of course that's not a problem if you play somewhere big:

 

 

[Leonard Smalls]

There is of course the easy 60s option, an oil wheel projector... Though LED is an option too

 

https://optikinetics.co.uk/product/aura-projector/

[Franticsmurf]

18 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Projection technology has moved on massively from what Franticsmurf is talking about.

I guessed it would have. For most of the venues we play, there still wouldn't be enough room on stage but that's more to do with us being a big band with a full drumkit. A robust stand to lift the projector up might work, but any vibration would be magnified by the stand and projection distance.

 

When we were looking into it, I started playing about with what to project. Obviously it depends on the band/genre/taste but a couple of things I tried were a powerpoint presentation of random coloured shapes on each slide with a slow fade transition applied and the video feedback from a webcam pointing at the computer screen while recording. None of these would have been synchronised, though. 

[BigRedX]

Personally I wouldn't consider using projection of any sort at venues that didn't already have the required kit installed as part of the house system. 

[police squad]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

Personally I wouldn't consider using projection of any sort at venues that didn't already have the required kit installed as part of the house system. 

actually that's a really good point

do the venues you play at, charge for using the kit

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Personally I wouldn't consider using projection of any sort at venues that didn't already have the required kit installed as part of the house system. 

 

It's surprising how many pubs and clubs have a TV projection screen, not always in the right place though.

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, police squad said:

actually that's a really good point

do the venues you play at, charge for using the kit

 

No it's normally part of the lighting rig and the projector will be hung from the celling with the lights. There might be a charge as part of the venue hire for the person/people running it (PA and lights), but all the gigs we do are through a promotor so they deal with that side. We just turn up and play.

[SimonK]

So I play a fair amount in churches that, certainly going back to the early 90s, have used projectors for songs/words rather than hymn books. This started off as acetate OHPs albeit some places made up and projected slides (which for whatever reason always had a dark blue background and white text!). But then from about twenty years ago (I make it around 2000ish) projectors have been pretty standard, with large screen TVs beginning to make an appearance over the last couple years.

 

One main challenge is that there is almost always a good amount of daylight coming into the room so positioning of screens is really important no matter how powerful the projector. Also never ever put it behind the band - above the band or to the side of the band is fine, but having to avoid the projection while playing (and getting occasionally blinded) is a real pain. Short-throw projectors can work well, but they do seem to be less powerful. When the room is dark having a dark background for anything projected is a very good idea so as to avoid unwanted light pollution/inteference with any lighting rig. In a bright room during daytime the opposite works best.

[police squad]

32 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

No it's normally part of the lighting rig and the projector will be hung from the celling with the lights. There might be a charge as part of the venue hire for the person/people running it (PA and lights), but all the gigs we do are through a promotor so they deal with that side. We just turn up and play.

thank you this is all great info

It turns out we already have some images that we have used in the past, on a laptop

So we need to check with the venues that are up next