Happy Jack Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I have a lovely Zeller 4/4 DB which - for a variety of reasons - only gets played at certain venues. It's not uncommon for there to be a few months between gigs for this particular bass. I took it to a large RBL hall last night and found it verged on being unplayable. The dusty end of the fingerboard has turned into a ski jump, with the action at the octave being perhaps 5/6mm but less than 2mm at the very end of the board. Worse, it's asymmetrical with the G side being noticeably more affected than the E side. (In fairness, it was only this asymmetric 'skew' that made the bass playable at all last night. 🙄) For clarity (1) the bass lives permanently in a centrally-heated house at a more-or-less constant temperature and with no outrageous swings in humidity. It lives alongside two other DBs, both 3/4s, neither of which have experienced this problem. For clarity (2) yes of course I should have checked before the load-out, but in truth I can't remember ever checking the neck/action on a DB before going to a gig ... it's never been necessary before. The only thing I always check is whether or not the straplock on my Precision has come loose. Yet again. So my largest bass has picked up both a huge banana-bow and a slight twist and I need to do something about it. Whatever action is needed is clearly outside my skill set and on another planet from my comfort zone. There is a DB luthier quite close to me (Thwaites in Bushey) so that's where I'll take the bass, but I need to know what to tell them to do. My own feeling is to have the fingerboard shaved to get it into the right profile for playing right now. That's reasonably major sugery and non-reversible. @Silvia Bluejay feels that I should instead ask Thwaites to try to straighten the neck (steam? clamps? electric shock treatment?). I agree that straightening is an option and would probably work, but my best guess is that it would be a short-term fix and that the fingerboard will tend to 'banana' again back to the same, unplayable condition. Full disclosure: Before this happened I was just about to do something to the end of the fingerboard anyway. I have ordered one of Steve Whitehouse's custom DB pickups, choosing one of the 'temporary fitment' packs so that I can move it between the Zeller and the Kolstein Busetto. Although in theory this shouldn't make any difference to the shave/straighten debate, it is something I need to bear in mind. Right now I'm looking for relevant experience, informed opinion, constructive suggestions. Let's see what I get. 😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeEvans Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Is the warping only in the fingerboard, in the unsupported section that runs clear of the neck? Or is the neck itself bent or twisted? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Crikey, that's a but of a shocker Jack. Is it the board only or board and neck that have moved? I'm currently restoring an old German upright and while the board has moved a little the neck itself hasn't. If your's is the same, given the board wood in question has moved so much in so little time, might a new - and possibly more stable - board be an option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 minute ago, JoeEvans said: Is the warping only in the fingerboard, in the unsupported section that runs clear of the neck? Or is the neck itself bent or twisted? Great minds Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 4 minutes ago, Beedster said: Crikey, that's a but of a shocker Jack. Is it the board only or board and neck that have moved? I'm currently restoring an old German upright and while the board has moved a little the neck itself hasn't. If your's is the same, given the board wood in question has moved so much in so little time, might a new - and possibly more stable - board be an option? ...either way thinning an already unstable board will likely make it more unstable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 27 minutes ago, JoeEvans said: Is the warping only in the fingerboard, in the unsupported section that runs clear of the neck? Or is the neck itself bent or twisted? The unsupported section of the fingerboard is what is curving upwards. I think that's also the part that's slightly twisted, no the neck itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 25 minutes ago, Beedster said: ...either way thinning an already unstable board will likely make it more unstable? Damn! That's what Silvie said. I'm feeling outvoted here. 😂 I assume that the existing fingerboard is (?) glued in place using (?) fish glue or similar. If that's the case then it should be a fairly easy job to remove it from the neck, especially since it doesn't matter if the fingerboard gets damaged in the process. Does anyone have any idea how much a good-quality (stable) replacement fingerboard is likely to cost? On the one hand it's just a shaped slab of (non-CITES) wood; on the other hand, this is DB we're talking about ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 4 minutes ago, Happy Jack said: Damn! That's what Silvie said. I'm feeling outvoted here. 😂 I assume that the existing fingerboard is (?) glued in place using (?) fish glue or similar. If that's the case then it should be a fairly easy job to remove it from the neck, especially since it doesn't matter if the fingerboard gets damaged in the process. Does anyone have any idea how much a good-quality (stable) replacement fingerboard is likely to cost? On the one hand it's just a shaped slab of (non-CITES) wood; on the other hand, this is DB we're talking about ... Ha ha,. sorry mate I assume you're thinking of doing it yourself? The board wood, even shaped blanks, is pretty cheap, it's fitting it and setting it up that's the real challenge as the chances of even quite a well shaped blank being a close fit are slim. While I have no idea how skilled you are in the shed, I'm competent, there are woodworking jobs I can do, and there are those I can't, and I'd put it firmly in the latter, especially as any change in thickness and/or shape will have implications for the bridge and the nut and I wouldn't want to have to reshape those also. I suspect it's a job best left to the pros Jack, others may however be more optimistic 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 BTW I looked for off the shelf boards for the 4/4 bass I'm working on and didn't have much luck. Most blanks from decent suppliers only appear to go up to 3/4, although given how much basses vary in size, it might still work https://caswells-strings.co.uk/product/fingerboards-ebony-bass/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeEvans Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I think I might be inclined to get it planed into shape and see how it fares - it might move more, in which case a new fingerboard will be needed, or you might get away with it. If it was mine I'd probably plane it myself, which might well turn out to be a bad idea... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 34 minutes ago, Beedster said: BTW I looked for off the shelf boards for the 4/4 bass I'm working on and didn't have much luck. Most blanks from decent suppliers only appear to go up to 3/4, although given how much basses vary in size, it might still work https://caswells-strings.co.uk/product/fingerboards-ebony-bass/ Just found this 4/4 board but it ain't cheap https://www.woodbrass.com/en-gb/fingerboard-gewa-4-4-double-bass-fingerboard-ebony-quality-1a-p241917.html As @JoeEvans says, best bet might be to get it planed and see how it goes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, Beedster said: Just found this 4/4 board but it ain't cheap https://www.woodbrass.com/en-gb/fingerboard-gewa-4-4-double-bass-fingerboard-ebony-quality-1a-p241917.html 😱 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I found them quite amiable there. Maybe have a chat and see what they think is the most sensible approach. They seem crazy busy most of the time so I can't see them touting for trade, so to speak, and recommending something unnecessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 Looks like I'll be taking the bass into Thwaites just as soon as the new pickup arrives. I think Steve is posting it to me today, so that should hopefully be a trip to Bushey on Wednesday. Incidentally, this is the bass in question. This video is from near the end of Set #2 (of 3) on Saturday night, by which time I'd worked out how to get a decent sound out of it with the current setup. I'm bloody glad I'd taped my fingers ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 I wish I could find the picture I'm looking for. Instead I'll have to use my words: The punk rock solution to this is easy. How often do you play up in thump position eh? Really...? So just cut that pesky fingerboard off. As a bonus, it would help cut out that annoying clacking noise you get when the strings hit the fingerboard. Anyway, no chance its the neck itself that's curved, unless that bass is a piece of shit. The fingerboard is a replaceable accessory like the bridge. Bit of hide glue to steam and off it pops. Sounds like you might have a duff one. A new one is the only real answer, and perfectly achievable for a couple hundred quid by a decent luthier. I wouldn't attempt it myself though. Remember a new board will alter the tone slightly too, depending what wood you can afford. I don't think steam-bending the finger board back to shape would be an option ... too dense. But I might be wrong. A shave might be worth trying first. If it makes it playable for a couple more years it'd be worth it. But if you end up taking too much off the end it might get a bit thin - though that'd only really affect the slap sound I guess. Miniscule effect on overall tone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 18/02/2024 at 11:39, Happy Jack said: I have ordered one of Steve Whitehouse's custom DB pickups, choosing one of the 'temporary fitment' packs so that I can move it between the Zeller and the Kolstein Busetto. I played in Frome a couple of years ago, at the festival. For some festivally reason the audience was full of people dressed in strange outfits like Star Wars storm troopers and stuff. Anyway, I had a bit of stage banter about the trip to Frome being a bit of a pilgrimmage for me, as one of the main reasons I took up double bass was because of a bassist from Frome who played in an 80s psychobilly band called Frenzy. (Yeah, and the Sharks, I know...). 'Anyone heard of Steve Whitehouse?' I asked the audience, to a ripple of applause from a few people in the know. Then one of the storm troopers in the front row took his helmet off ... and there was Mr Whitehouse beaming away at me. 'Shit, there he is!' I said. It was a cool moment. I had a great chat with him afterwards. Very friendly chap. Slap bass legend. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 PS Jack and Silvie - Jump 66 are closing Sat night at Ealing Blues Festival (second stage) on July 27th. Be good to see you both again! A few new tunes in the set at last ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 So about the Guest List ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 6 minutes ago, PaulKing said: PS Jack and Silvie - Jump 66 are closing Sat night at Ealing Blues Festival (second stage) on July 27th. Be good to see you both again! A few new tunes in the set at last ... We're gigging the whole day with the Dynamites on 27th, Paul! Aston Clinton Beer Festival in the afternoon, and The Golden Bell pub in Leighton Buzzard in the evening. Have a great one and hopefully we'll catch you another time. Are you doing Richmond riverside this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 20 minutes ago, PaulKing said: How often do you play up in thump position eh? Really...? So just cut that pesky fingerboard off. I tend to think of myself as being quite good at lateral thinking but in truth that never even occurred to me! 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrkelly Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Don't worry about having the fingerboard shaved, it's a perfectly standard procedure & part of any proper bass MOT. It'll play a million times better as a result. Get it to Thwaites and they'll tell you exactly what's happened & what's needed to put it right. It could be that the fingerboard has detached ever so slightly from the neck. It needs full contact with the fingerboard in order to be stiff enough to withstand the string tension. If there's a slight lift anywhere, the strings will bow the neck forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 22 hours ago, Happy Jack said: I tend to think of myself as being quite good at lateral thinking but in truth that never even occurred to me! 🤣 Ah, but the moment you do that you say to yourself "Shit, where do I now put that nice new pickup....?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 We're driving back from Thwaites right now! Update to follow once we get back home to a proper keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Yup, took the DB to Bill at Thwaites and - of course - he spotted something we'd both missed, which was that the fingerboard was just starting to separate from the neck, further exaggerating the ski-jump. His opinion was that he should detach the fingerboard, get both neck and underside of the fingerboard properly straight and mated, and then do a "shoot / chute?" (as he called it) - i.e. shave the fingerboard. He reckoned that would get us almost there, and fine tuning could be achieved (if necessary) by converting my fixed bridge to adjustable. He tried playing the bass for a minute or so, and then ... ahem ... expressed his surprise that I'd played a 3-set gig with it on Saturday night. 🙄🤣 Watch this space. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 20/02/2024 at 15:37, Beedster said: Ah, but the moment you do that you say to yourself "Shit, where do I now put that nice new pickup....?" Darn it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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