Using a compressor to get a tight, punchy pick sound

[franzbassist]

My covers band are playing "White Wedding" and it sounds surprisingly good, however I'd like to clean up the bass and need your help!

 

i) I'm playing it with a pick

ii) Initially played with down/up strokes - sounded sloppy

iii) Switched to down strokes only - much better, but still not clean enough to my ears. 

 

So my thoughts are to try and see if a compressor can tidy things up, however I am a technonumpty when it comes to such things, so can anyone suggest some good basic settings to try?  I have a Providence Bass Boost Comp I can use, or try out the (8) compressors in my MS-3.

 

   

 

 

 

 

[MartinB]

I think I learned White Wedding once, long ago - is it the one where there's like 32 bars of the same note over and over?

A couple of suggestions:

- Attack determines whether the initial transient is allowed through before compression starts. So you don't want to set it too fast, or it'll squash the percussive "click" of the plectrum. The Providence manual says it goes from 0.1 to 10 ms; I'd probably crank it to maximum.
- For general smoothing, set the threshold so that the gain reduction indicator isn't lighting up on every note - just when you dig in a bit. This should help even out any over-enthusiasm, without sounding too effect-y. But also try setting it so that it's on all the time, and see if you prefer that sound.

[franzbassist]

17 minutes ago, MartinB said:

I think I learned White Wedding once, long ago - is it the one where there's like 32 bars of the same note over and over?

A couple of suggestions:

- Attack determines whether the initial transient is allowed through before compression starts. So you don't want to set it too fast, or it'll squash the percussive "click" of the plectrum. The Providence manual says it goes from 0.1 to 10 ms; I'd probably crank it to maximum.
- For general smoothing, set the threshold so that the gain reduction indicator isn't lighting up on every note - just when you dig in a bit. This should help even out any over-enthusiasm, without sounding too effect-y. But also try setting it so that it's on all the time, and see if you prefer that sound.

 

Thanks, that sounds like a good starting place.

 

And yes, there is a loooong passage sitting on that B

[SumOne]

I haven't found compressors to be great at 'cleaning up' a sound, they are good at adding sustain, making notes have a consistent attack/release and limiting peaks, and some of them are good at adding a certain tone.

 

But if the sound going into the compressor are 'un-clean' (e.g. overtones from other un-played strings etc) then depending on the compressor and how it's set it can bring up the volume of those un-wanted sounds while squishing the sounds you want into one monotonous/un-lively sound. If it's short defined punchy notes you want then perhaps muting and EQ would help more than compression.

 

 

[franzbassist]

1 minute ago, SumOne said:

If it's short defined punchy notes you want then perhaps muting and EQ would help more than compression.

 

A fair point.  My muting technique is decent enough but it could probably do with some work when playing with a pick. 

[Osiris]

16 hours ago, franzbassist said:

My covers band are playing "White Wedding" and it sounds surprisingly good, however I'd like to clean up the bass and need your help!

 

i) I'm playing it with a pick

ii) Initially played with down/up strokes - sounded sloppy

iii) Switched to down strokes only - much better, but still not clean enough to my ears. 

 

So my thoughts are to try and see if a compressor can tidy things up, however I am a technonumpty when it comes to such things, so can anyone suggest some good basic settings to try?  I have a Providence Bass Boost Comp I can use, or try out the (8) compressors in my MS-3.

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

Recommending compression settings is difficult as there's so many variables to consider, so what works for some will almost certainly not work for others. There's also different types of compressor design that can impart different qualities on the signal.

 

And I know I keep banging on about it but to get the best out of a compressor you really need to understand what each control does and how they interact with each another. Have a look on Ovnilab at the overview pages as they're really good at at explaining the relative complexities in understandable language. But it's still down to you to apply that knowledge to make the magic happen 😉

 

But from what you've said you're looking for I'd suggest a ratio of around 4:1, always a good starting point, a hard knee setting if you have control over it, and ideally a FET or VCA based circuit as they're usually inherently quicker and punchier sounding than optical compressors. But these are just guidelines rather than rules. I

 

15 hours ago, MartinB said:

I think I learned White Wedding once, long ago - is it the one where there's like 32 bars of the same note over and over?

A couple of suggestions:

- Attack determines whether the initial transient is allowed through before compression starts. So you don't want to set it too fast, or it'll squash the percussive "click" of the plectrum. The Providence manual says it goes from 0.1 to 10 ms; I'd probably crank it to maximum.
- For general smoothing, set the threshold so that the gain reduction indicator isn't lighting up on every note - just when you dig in a bit. This should help even out any over-enthusiasm, without sounding too effect-y. But also try setting it so that it's on all the time, and see if you prefer that sound.

 

All good pointers. But there other options to explore that you may prefer, for example, I prefer faster attack and release times as they work better with my heavy handed playing. You can also experiment with lowering the threshold to catch every note but using a lower ratio, 2:1 for example, to give everything a gentle squeeze. 

 

There's no real absolute rules to compression but it's easier to get it wrong than to get something that works for you if you're just fiddling about without really understanding what you're doing. It's definitely worth sinking a couple of hours homework in, and if you can do that while twiddling some knobs it might help things make more sense. It's also worth trying different settings with the band at volume as compression always makes more sense in context than in isolation. 

[Lozz196]

I know what you mean @franzbassist, I use the DBX160-type one on my Zoom MS60B at home for this and it sharpens/cleans up the notes nicely without making any other noticeable change to the sound, really helps for learning songs as with the notes being sharper I can really focus on exactly when to play them. 

[Downunderwonder]

Just play it with fingers like I do. No compression required.

[BassAdder60]

I play Rebel Yell and find fingers are better for a fuller sound 

 

Tried with a pick many times but always missed that deep full fundamental of each note 

 

Sadly I tried many different amps and pedals before getting a rig that worked for me 

Edited December 13, 2023 by BassAdder60

[Baloney Balderdash]

4 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

I know what you mean @franzbassist, I use the DBX160-type one on my Zoom MS60B at home for this and it sharpens/cleans up the notes nicely without making any other noticeable change to the sound, really helps for learning songs as with the notes being sharper I can really focus on exactly when to play them. 

The emulation of the DBX 160A compressor on the Zoom MS multi stomp boxes and B1/G1(X)on units is indeed a great compressor, and perfect for exactly this purpose.

 

For a subtle compression that add a bit of punch, snap and bite, adds definition and articulation to the top end and tightens the low end slightly, I have personally used following settings on the Zoom DBX 160A emulation compressor model: Threshold: -7 ; Ratio 2.5:1 ; Gain: 7 ; Knee: Hard ; Level: 50 (for unity at this setting). 

 

 

5 hours ago, Osiris said:

All good pointers. But there other options to explore that you may prefer, for example, I prefer faster attack and release times as they work better with my heavy handed playing. You can also experiment with lowering the threshold to catch every note but using a lower ratio, 2:1 for example, to give everything a gentle squeeze. 

However if you want the compressor to make things punchier, as OP actually asked for, you would want a longer attack time for it to emphasis the attack, rather than dampening it.

 

10ms, as is the maximum attack time setting for the compressor OP currently got, even seems a bit on the short side for this on bass.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Baloney Balderdash]

.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash
Double post *doh*... sorry