Pick or Fingers … ongoing dilemma!!

[BassAdder60]

Some would of read on here my challenge to get a better finger style tone to suit my rock band.

 

Its influenced my gear over the years and I’m sure I’ve had gear that may of been fine if I used a pick instead !!

 

I love the fullness of tone with fingers but dislike the lack of clarity and note attack and I don’t think gear or technique will change that but … 

 

Playing with a pick I find it gives me mostly the sound I want, certainly the attack and clarity is spot on although the low fundamentals are never the same.

Since adding the MXR M87 compressor I can improve the fullness of the pick tone and that has helped improve the depth of sound.

 

It’s been my biggest dilemma over the last two years to which method gives me the desired results. I can play both methods equally well but don’t really want to mix the two in a typical gig 

 

What a faff it’s been !! 
 

* update * 

 

Im going to work harder getting the best tone from fingerstyle as I feel more connected to the bass and find I make less mistakes for some reason ! 
 

I do love the pick tone on a PBass but it’s never full enough to my ears 

Edited September 12, 2023 by BassAdder60

[bassalbert]

I am not really a pick guy, but I use it when needed, sometimes in the middle of the song. I see no big problem in mixing techniques

[BassAdder60]

I guess I’m looking for the best tone using either method 

 

On a hollow boomy stage the pick is better but under normal circumstances I find the fingers have added fullness to a rock trio sound 

 

 

[Woodinblack]

I had to use a pick the other day as I had blistered my fingers so much. Then the next gig I didn't have a pick at all, so decided to use a coin - unfortunately in my hurry I picked a £1 - not the best choice!

Turns out I need a pick for 3 or 4 songs, and can't use a pick with 4 or 5 songs, so I should just keep some spares!

[BassAdder60]

I’ve got so many picks now it’s embarrassing!!

 

Too cheap to sell but a shame to throw them away 

 

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

Try, instead of striking or pulling the strings, to just lightly stroke them with a light inwards slapping motion, using only the outmost tip of your fingers/nails.

 

Or use the index and/or middle finger flamenco guitar flicking style technique, which when you get this down properly would actually allow you to pick the strings faster than with a pick.

 

This ought to give you more emphasis of the attack.

 

These two approaches to finger picking strings require a quite large amount of precision though, and as with most techniques are rather tricky to get right to start with, but with just 2 x 5 minutes or so focused practice of them per day consistently you'll have them down pretty decently after just a couple of months or so, and you should be able to actually practically apply them to your playing after just a month or so with just 10 minutes focused daily practice.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BassAdder60]

7 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Try instead of plucking and pulling the strings, to just lightly stroke them with a light inwards slapping motion using only the outmost tip of your fingers/nails.

 

Or use the index and/or middle finger flamenco guitar flicking style technique, which when you get it down proper would actually allow you to pick the strings faster than with a pick.

 

These two approaches to finger picking strings require a quite large amount of precision though, and as with most techniques are rather tricky to get right to start with, but just focusing on practicing them 2 x 5 minutes per day consistently you'll have them down pretty good after just a couple of months or so, and you should be able to actually practically apply them to your playing after just a month or so with 10 minutes focused daily practice.

 

 

Thanks .. I have found a lighter touch works better and helps to play faster too.  I’m getting there I think 

[BassAdder60]

Something I’ve learnt along the way regarding certain gear 

Orange Terror Bass amp - too dark sounding for fingers 

Ashdown- ABM600 perfect EQ for finger style clarity

Ampeg V4- lovely but too gritty at volume in band 

Ashdown CTM100- lovely and best tube amp but EQ is limiting 

TC Elf - fantastic back up amp and good tone and EQ 

ToneHammer 700 - lovely amp but a bit dark sounding so again not ideal fingerstyle rock

Genzler MG800 - awesome amp and clean and good clarity for me

 

many others were tried but were lacking in something for me 

 

Best cab used with the above Ampeg SVT212AV.. my favourite cab 

 

All of that plus many pedals etc has been my challenge to be happy with playing fingerstyle bass in a loud rock band 

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 14/09/2023 at 13:29, BassAdder60 said:

Something I’ve learnt along the way regarding certain gear 

Orange Terror Bass amp - too dark sounding for fingers 

Ashdown- ABM600 perfect EQ for finger style clarity

Ampeg V4- lovely but too gritty at volume in band 

Ashdown CTM100- lovely and best tube amp but EQ is limiting 

TC Elf - fantastic back up amp and good tone and EQ 

ToneHammer 700 - lovely amp but a bit dark sounding so again not ideal fingerstyle rock

Genzler MG800 - awesome amp and clean and good clarity for me

 

many others were tried but were lacking in something for me 

 

Best cab used with the above Ampeg SVT212AV.. my favourite cab 

 

All of that plus many pedals etc has been my challenge to be happy with playing fingerstyle bass in a loud rock band 

By coincident I use the Angular Tone Hammer amp emulation and the Ampeg SVR 212AV IR cab sim on my NUX MLD Bass Preamp + DI pedal (by the way an absolutely amazing pedal, that comes at an unbelievably affordable price, considering).

 

And it's pretty amazing for fingerstyle, at least the way I pick the strings.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BassAdder60]

The ToneHammer 700 was the best tube sounding Class D amp I’ve ever played.

 

The Genzler Magellan 800 is a step up from that but cleaner tone 

Edited September 14, 2023 by BassAdder60

[BigRedX]

I sound very much the same from a tone PoV whether I use pick or fingers, but that might be because I've pretty much worn my fingerprints off my right hand from 30 years of playing and when I use a pick it's a heavy but flexible nylon Herco Flex75. What is different though is the feel especially on eighth note passages where using fingers will make the bass line swing far more than if I play with a pick which is different again depending on whether it's all down strokes, all up strokes or alternating up and down strokes.

 

So for me the difference between pick and fingers is mostly how I want the timing feel rather than the sound.

[jay bass]

I mainly play using my fingers but for certain songs i need the extra  attack sound of a picked bass.

when using a pick you do loose some of tonal variation you get with finger playing.

i tend to use 2 different patches on my amp,

i can dial in some of the finger sounding tones when using a pick without re setting the amps eq all the time..

 

[chris_b]

I think you are overthinking this.

 

There are top rock bassists using fingers and others using picks, so both work.

 

How many is "many pedals"? If you have EQ issues I would look at what all those pedals are doing to your sound.

[BillyBass]

My default is using a pick but certain songs we play sound right, to me, with fingers.  I have come to the conclusion that in a covers band, playing songs written by different bands, keeping the bass tone constant isn't important.

 

 

 

 

[BassAdder60]

I think for the majority of my setlist the PBass with a pick sounds better 

Zombie 

Whole Lot of Rosie 

Highway to Hell

Rebel Yell

The Trooper

The Pretender 

Doctor Doctor 

Whole Lot of Love

Immigrant Song

Basket Case 

Buck Rogers 

The Chain 

Fingers seem to suit 

Purple Rain

Long Train Running

Hard to Handle 

Weak

Tush 

Blow 

 

Its a challenge and I could switch from pick to fingers so that works however I tend to have my amp set for pickstyle with less high mids and less top and the bass boosted more to fill out the sound 

 

The tone is great although I do lose that pillowy fullness of fingers but for most songs I don’t think I need it. 
 

When I listen back to some gig clips my best tone is always when I’ve used a pick 

Edited September 29, 2023 by BassAdder60

[chris_b]

You're overthinking this.

 

Over the years I've played about 80% of those songs with fingers and it sounded fine. I know a bassist who has played many of those songs, with a pick, he never uses fingers, and he sounds fine too.

 

There is no right or wrong answer here. Neither is better or worse, Use the technique(s) that you are most comfortable with.

[BassAdder60]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

You're overthinking this.

 

Over the years I've played about 80% of those songs with fingers and it sounded fine. I know a bassist who has played many of those songs, with a pick, he never uses fingers, and he sounds fine too.

 

There is no right or wrong answer here. Neither is better or worse, Use the technique(s) that you are most comfortable with.

Thanks Chris 👍

[BassAdder60]

As it’s been pointed out I was probably over thinking this pick / fingers dilemma for ages 

 

Since going over to the Ampeg V4B it doesn’t seem to matter either way as they both sound great !

 

Im going to gig this weekend using fingers only ( previous gig was pick ) and I’m already enjoying the physical connection again. 
 

All our set seems to work fine with either method ! 

[BillyBass]

My punk covers band has started to diversify a bit and some of our newer covers I prefer to play with fingers.  We are going to add 'Are you gonna be my girl' by Jet.  Apparently, the Jet bassist used an Epiphone Jack Casady with a pick in the studio for this song, whereas he uses a P bass with pick for their other songs.  There is a distinct bass tone  tooth's song which certainly isn't P bass with rounds.  Watching live videos of them, he uses his P bass but doesn't replicate the studio version's tone.

 

I'm not going to buy an Epiphone Jack Casady for one song or put flats on one of my basses but I can get close to the tone by using fingers, in a certain way.  Close enough for a covers band at least.

 

I play most of our set with a pick: Sex Pistols, The Jam, The Damned, Green Day, Undertones, Buzzcocks, UK Subs, The Ruts, Kaiser Chiefs, The Clash, Motorhead, Hives

 

I feel these songs work better with fingers:

 

Hold your Hands Up - Reef

Are You Gonna be my Girl - Lenny Kravitz

Pump it up - Elvis Costello

Get it on - T-Rex

 

 

 

[BassAdder60]

We are about to add

Living on a Prayer 

 

with a pick it sounds empty 

[cdog]

On 12/09/2023 at 12:47, BassAdder60 said:

I’ve got so many picks now it’s embarrassing!!

 

Too cheap to sell but a shame to throw them away 

 

 

Have to start throwing them at the audience after you finish each song! 😄

[BassAdder60]

Update * 

Played with the band last night and didn’t use my Compressor ( Ampeg Opto ) and I could tell it was missing especially playing with a pick 

 

The Optocomp and my Ampeg V4B seem to pair very nicely together and with a pick it allows me to use the Ultra Low On setting on the V4 and this fills the pick tone out nicely! 

[Baloney Balderdash]

I do realize the choice of pick is very much up to personal preference, but if you are looking for a warmer tone nylon picks tend to be in the warmer end of the spectrum, and using one of the round corners to pick, rather than the tip, would resolve in a somewhat fuller warmer tone as well.

 

Finally there's also something like the Wedgie rubber picks, which while advertised to give you a tone identically to finger plucking doesn't really, but it does produce a warmer, rounder and somewhat softer tone, something that falls somewhat between regular finger plucking and a regular pick.

 

Personally I prefer the 3.1mm Soft Wedgie pick, but they come in 3 grades of flexibility, Soft, Medium and Hard, and two gauges, 3.1mm and 5mm, and while perhaps sounding like awfully thick being made of rubber they don't really feel and respond like it.

 

And this comes from a guy who otherwise prefer using relative thin picks.

 

My favorite, beside the Wedgie Soft 3.1mm rubber pick, is a Dunlop Tortex .60mm, and it used to be the Dunlop USA Nylon .73mm, which despite being thicker, is actually more flexible than the .60mm Tortex one, nylon being a softer more flexible material than Tortex, the latter as far as I gathered really being an altered Delrin formular/variant.

 

The Tortex used for when I want a pronounced archetypical pick tone, with that prominent snappy emphasis of the attack that only a pick can give you, the Wedgie rubber pick when I want a softer warmer tone, cause while finger picking does produce a fuller tone (fuller in the sense of a more complex tone with more harmonic content, making the individual notes spanning over a fuller frequency spectrum), the way I play (stroking, rather than plucking or striking, the strings relatively lightly with the outmost top of my fingers/nails, in a slightly inward slapping motion, often combined with double thumbing and flamenco guitar style index and/or middle finger flicking technique), the Wedgie actually sounds softer/rounder and warmer than my fingers. 

 

 

Edited March 19 by Baloney Balderdash

[Valere]

The tone is in the fingers. With correct technique you should be able to have a fairly consistent sound when you switch from pick to fingers with the same amp settings. A bit of compression always helps. Make sure your pick is thick enough. You may want to put a bit of foam on the bridge (alla Carol Kaye) or learn to palm mute to tame the ‘clicky’ sound a pick can give you. 

[BassAdder60]

On 04/12/2023 at 22:17, Valere said:

The tone is in the fingers. With correct technique you should be able to have a fairly consistent sound when you switch from pick to fingers with the same amp settings. A bit of compression always helps. Make sure your pick is thick enough. You may want to put a bit of foam on the bridge (alla Carol Kaye) or learn to palm mute to tame the ‘clicky’ sound a pick can give you. 

Since I purchased my American Performer PBass the difference in tone from fingers to pick is less. 
I assume this is down to better pickups and the superior tone control ? 
 

I’ve also added a Darkglass Alpha Omicron pedal to bring out a bit of clanky grind on low settings and with fingers I get a more pronounced attack on each note before I added the pedal