Sunn amps are back.

[Tee]

I think the original 2x15 cabs were around 300w.

 

A 100w class D head that size makes little sense. It must be 1000w, especially as I reckon they're going after the 'stoner' market, were original Beta Leads and the like are sought after.

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 03/08/2023 at 14:25, bremen said:

"frequency response 65Hz to 20kHz"

On 03/08/2023 at 16:58, bremen said:

That's the amp...

On 05/08/2023 at 06:41, Downunderwonder said:

 

Could be following an "honesty is the best policy" in the hope that it grabs attention.

 

A Fender Rumble100 doesn't look or spec like it should be able to make a dent in a wet paper bag but I could do plenty of gigs with one.

 

As said, that's the specs listed for the amp, not the cab.

 

Which though doesn't make any sense.

 

Also the just preamp weighting 26lbs, exactly the same as the full head.

 

1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

That's not the only thing on their site that makes no sense.

Indeed!

 

Some rather wacky specs on most of the stuff on that site.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

3 hours ago, Tee said:

I think the original 2x15 cabs were around 300w.

They were, loaded with JBL D140 rated for 150w each, and that was in the 60s. The more or less current equivalent 2226H are 600 watt rated. It was the JBL drivers that made Sunn 200S the best bass cab in the late 60s. Fender used them as well in their Dual Showman, but that cab was sealed, which gave poor results with the low Q JBLs. The Sunn was ported, so they worked much better. Sundholm called them rear-loading folded horns, but they weren't. He called them that because he didn't know what a rear-loaded folded horn was. His seat of the pants design was a reverse taper bass reflex. Even though he didn't really know what he was doing they still worked a lot better than sealed.

[BassmanPaul]

I always loved JBL drivers. I still have a 2225 and a 2226 in boxes in my workshop. I should get round to using them one day. LOL

 

 

[agedhorse]

With a low powered speaker, a strong motor and just a couple mm of VC overhang, it’s possible to make a very efficient driver using a 4” coil and a tighter than average gap.

[RussFM]

 

I haven't watched this yet but but looks interesting

[Vin Venal]

So the original beta lead and beta bass were 100 watt solid state jobs. Some people say they were exactly the same amp with the reverb taken out of the bass unit, some people say the eq section was different, but regardless it was definitely the same preamp hooked up to the same power section in the same sized box.

 

I guess I can kinda see what they're doing here if what they were going for was an authentic looking and sounding head but cheaper (than a new one would be now) with a modern class D power amp for the lead, then just putting out the exact same product without the reverb for bass. I can also kinda see the logic of also releasing it without the power section so you can have the authentic look and sound of a beta lead/bass and run it into any power amp you like.

 

In practice though, yeah, you're gonna end up with a woefully underpowered amp, or just a preamp, in a very big, expensive, heavy box, which is gonna be fairly niche in its appeal, surely?

 

The price on the 100s is mad, you can still buy a vintage 100s for a fraction of that price. 

 

It's all a bit of a headscratcher really, especially cuz fender own the brand, so must have signed off on these guys ideas?

Edited September 2, 2023 by Vin Venal

[BassmanPaul]

I've been looking at the schematic for the Sunn 200S that I have beside my computer. There is nothing special about it except for the use of the 6AN8 tube. I did like the use of the KT88 'cos I've always had a great sound when using them.

 

[MartinB]

Quote

I can’t say too much about unannounced products, but one of the things you’ll notice about the original Beta Lead is it’s a fairly big box. With modern technology and manufacturing techniques, and certainly with the market in the way that it is right now with fly-rigs and those kinds of things, I think there’s a good chance that smaller versions of the Beta Lead might be on the horizon

-- https://guitar.com/features/interviews/sunn-ceo-james-lebihan-relaunch-brand-model-t-irs-modelling-amplifiers/

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I'm not overwhelmed by Lebihan's knowledge base: “If you think of where Sunn came from, that was an environment where amps just weren’t loud enough – the Kingsmen had the same issues with being heard as the Beatles and Stones. They just needed a louder amp, and that’s what the Sundholm brothers put together – a loud amp, using completely different technology". The problem everyone had in the 60s wasn't the amps, it was the PA. The PA wasn't able to be heard by the audience, and there was no such thing as stage monitors so performers could hear each other or themselves. Sunn amps didn't use different technology either, it was quite commonplace. The only thing that made them louder than most amps of the day was the ported cabs loaded with JBL, as I mentioned already. That advantage didn't last long. The 200S cab was totally outclassed by the Altec or EV loaded Ampeg V4B cab, which really was a folded horn, and the similar designs by Acoustic.

[bremen]

What Bill (and to be fair, mostly everyone else) said.

 

My theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

 

"A Veblen good is a type of luxury good for which the demand increases as the price increases, in apparent contradiction of the law of demand, resulting in an upward-sloping demand curve. The higher prices of Veblen goods may make them desirable as a status symbol in the practices of conspicuous consumption and conspicuous leisure. A product may be a Veblen good because it is a positional good, something few others can own."

 

Plenty of this to be seen in hi-fi. And, lately, bicycles.

[Wolverinebass]

"Sunn amps are back! And our prices are on crack!"

[Wolverinebass]

On 03/09/2023 at 18:58, bremen said:

What Bill (and to be fair, mostly everyone else) said.

 

My theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

 

"A Veblen good is a type of luxury good for which the demand increases as the price increases, in apparent contradiction of the law of demand, resulting in an upward-sloping demand curve. The higher prices of Veblen goods may make them desirable as a status symbol in the practices of conspicuous consumption and conspicuous leisure. A product may be a Veblen good because it is a positional good, something few others can own."

 

Plenty of this to be seen in hi-fi. And, lately, bicycles.

Or, Darkglass actually.