5 wire KA pickup

[fleabag]

I'm about to install a pair of KA Claymore soapbars,  and the bass will just be Vol Vol Tone, as per a Jazz bass.

 

But JB wiring uses each centre lug on the Vol pots for hot wires from pickups.  See .jpg

 

The KA wiring, ( 2nd pic ) as downloaded from KA, uses the outside lug , and they only show one pot, not two, which i need.  I'm soldering KA pup black and white together and taping off, as per their diagram, for series only.  See .jpg

 

It seems to me that i should run the hot and grounds  ( Red = hot,  Green+Bare = ground ) as per the Jazz B wiring and ignore the KA diagram.

 

But i'd like to check, as wiring is not one of my very few talents.  Last pic is my actual pickup, with wires twisted together as per the KA wiring, but somehow seems wrong

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by fleabag

[fleabag]

I should add, just to confuse matters, that the pickups from new,  had  the green and red wires twisted together, which suggests thats the series option ??

 

I just have feeling that me twisting black and white wires together seems wrong, as does twisting  green and bare wires together.  Surley most manufacturers use black as ground, and in this case, black + bare together for grounding.

 

Rightly or wrongly, i would have thought red+ green together would be series,  black+bare would be ground and white would be the hot ?

 

 

[BigRedX]

If you are unsure get your multimeter out and check to see how the pickup is wired without any of the wires twisted together.

 

While it is convenient, there is no logical reason why one manufacturer should follow the same colour coding for their wires as another.

[fleabag]

I dont own a multimeter, but why do you think the pickup arrived out of the box with red + green twisted together , on both pickups ?

[Beer of the Bass]

11 hours ago, fleabag said:

I'm about to install a pair of KA Claymore soapbars,  and the bass will just be Vol Vol Tone, as per a Jazz bass.

 

But JB wiring uses each centre lug on the Vol pots for hot wires from pickups.  See .jpg

 

The KA wiring, ( 2nd pic ) as downloaded from KA, uses the outside lug , and they only show one pot, not two, which i need.  I'm soldering KA pup black and white together and taping off, as per their diagram, for series only.  See .jpg

 

It seems to me that i should run the hot and grounds  ( Red = hot,  Green+Bare = ground ) as per the Jazz B wiring and ignore the KA diagram.

 

But i'd like to check, as wiring is not one of my very few talents.  Last pic is my actual pickup, with wires twisted together as per the KA wiring, but somehow seems wrong

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way of wiring a volume control shown in the second diagram is fine for single pickup instruments or when you're using a selector switch, but if you use it with two pickups and no selector switch, it will mute the whole output when one volume control is turned down. The Jazz bass diagram (with the pickup hot to the pot wiper) avoids this.

[fleabag]

Aha - that makes sense , thanks.

 

I cant help thinking that they ship the pickups out with red + green twisted together for series humbucking. 

[BigRedX]

If you are going to be doing your own electrics then you really should invest in multimeter or at least a continuity tester, otherwise you are reduced to "monkey see, monkey do" and run into problems like this when the product doesn't match the information you have, and you won't be able to work out why things have gone wrong when they do.

 

The problem with "soap bar" when it comes to describing bass pickups is that it is essentially meaningless. Unlike guitar soap bars which are fat single coil pickups usually based on the Gibson P90 style, all you can say about bass soap bars is that the casing is wider than a typical J-style pickup. What is actually inside the casing is entirely up to the manufacturer and unless they specifically state what coil arrangements are under the cover you don't really know.

 

Information about the Claymore pickups on the Kent Armstrong site is fairly sketchy, although the implication appears to be that under the cover is a standard (Stingray type) humbucking pickup with two full width coils. However there is nothing in the description that actually confirms this, and it could just as easily be a P-style split coil or any other arrangement with two coils that can be wired together to give a humbucking effect.

 

I suspect that the reason they have wrapped the back and white wires together is that these are the ones that need to be connected in series humbucking mode, but it would have been less confusing if they had simply labelled each wire. In your OP you appear to have shown just a small part of the supplied wiring guide. I suspect that being able to see the other options would have clarified exactly what each wire does. Again the ability to be able to read and understand a circuit diagram would be most useful to you.

 

If you simply want to have two pickups (with each pickup wired as a series humbucker) then for each pickup solder together the black and white wires and cover each join in insulating tape. Then follow the Standard Jazz Bass wiring diagram you posted substituting white on the diagram for red on the pickup and black on the diagram for green on the pickup.

[bartelby]

@BigRedX just to add to confusion if you google Kent Armstrong pickup wiring you get either this from the Kent Armstrong site

 

 

or WD Music have a link to KA wiring diagrams that gives you...

 

[BigRedX]

Those two diagrams just confirm that red and white are from one coil with red being "hot" and green and black are from the other one with black being "hot". Overall it makes no difference unless you are intending to use the split coil option where the KA and WD Music versions results in a different single coil being the active one. 

 

This is why being able to read and understand circuit and wiring diagrams is important.

[fleabag]

 

 

Stewmac had the best diagram for KA 4 conductor pickups, and it's now soldered up

Edited April 27, 2023 by fleabag

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, fleabag said:

Stewmac had the best diagram for KA 4 conductor pickups, and it's now soldered up

 

Do have a URL for that? I couldn't find anything on the StewMac website.

[fleabag]

https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/learn-about-guitar-pickups-and-electronics-and-wiring/wdkent-armstrong-humbucking-pickups/

 

 

[BigRedX]

Thanks!

 

Did the pickups you bought have the magnetic polarity marked on them?

[fleabag]

No,  none at all.

 

There was a paper wiring diag. in the box but it was simply a copy of the one i posted,  and Barts  2nd diag  , the WD one with Black/White twisted together.  That one is the same as the Stewmac one, except Stewmac described them for dummies. 

 

Look at the WD diag...it uses the outside lug of the 2 Vols as hots, and JB's use the middle lug of both Vols as hots

 

Still see no reason why both pickups were sent with greens/reds twisted together.  The cant possibly know how someone is going to wire them up.

Edited April 28, 2023 by fleabag

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, fleabag said:

Still see no reason why both pickups were sent with greens/reds twisted together.  The cant possibly know how someone is going to wire them up.

 

They don't. But they'll assume that most people who don't want coil switching options will want to use the pickup in standard (series) mode. Less chance of someone making a mistake an joining both hot wires together and making the pickup everything cancelling.

[fleabag]

Ah  that makes sense

[fleabag]

Hmm...  well much to my surprise, i got volume out of the bass upon first connection to me amp.  Plenty volume.

 

Weirdly, instead of Vol Vol Tone,  i have Vol Vol Vol.    The Neck and Bridge pups vols work fine, independantly and both on.  But no matter which of the pickups is on, or both, the tone control turns them both off,  like another vol control.

 

Now,..i followed Stewmacs guide to the letter  Black+White  twisted together and taped off  (this is Series i presume ),   Green + bare to ground,  Red as hot.

 

Any ideas peepsies ?    Surely Stewmac isnt wrong ?

 

 

[fleabag]

Forgot to add, that if both pickup Vols are off,  the third vol  ( tone pot ) doesnt do anything at all.  It only does this volume off on both pickups thing when either or both pickups are on

[Simo]

13 hours ago, fleabag said:

Forgot to add, that if both pickup Vols are off,  the third vol  ( tone pot ) doesnt do anything at all.  It only does this volume off on both pickups thing when either or both pickups are on

 

Check that the capacitor leg that connects to the pot lug isn't touching the pot casing, and therefore shorting out the cap. If that's OK, then check that pot lugs aren't making contact with any shielding foil/paint (or metal control plate).

[fleabag]

Thanks Jon,  yes i've checked and no part of the cap leg is touching the pot apart fron where it's solder to the pot lug.

 

There's no shielding or foil in the cavity to touch. 

Maybe i should try swapping the cap - if that was dead, it would as if there was no cap at all, and would that just render the tone pot as another volume pot ?

[fleabag]

Changed the cap for another new one and made no difference.

 

One thing i have noticed that i didnt before was that when backing the tone pot off fully, there is still a tiny amount of volume.  It was so quiet though, that

the acoustic noise of the bass was louder, and it was masking the small amount of volume still there

[tauzero]

You have got the tip on the socket connected to the centre lug on the pot, haven't you? This is where a multimeter would be handy, to see if the resistance between tip and ring of the output jack was constant or if it dropped as you backed the tone off.

[Suburban Man]

If you remove the capacitor altogether you should find that the tone control ceases to work.  If it is still acting like a volume control then the spare tag has got earthed, or the wiper is being earthed somehow.  You could try swapping the tone control connections so that the wire to the tip goes from one of the outer tags and the capacitor that goes to earth is soldered to the centre tag. If the capacitor was the wrong value then that would also 'mute' the output, like say if it was 0.47 instead of 0.047

 

[fleabag]

I never thought of the value, just assumed that 47k was standard, and they dont always print the 0. or 0.0 on the cap

 

This is the cap in question

 

10 minutes ago, Suburban Man said:

If you remove the capacitor altogether you should find that the tone control ceases to work.  If it is still acting like a volume control then the spare tag has got earthed, or the wiper is being earthed somehow.  You could try swapping the tone control connections so that the wire to the tip goes from one of the outer tags and the capacitor that goes to earth is soldered to the centre tag. If the capacitor was the wrong value then that would also 'mute' the output, like say if it was 0.47 instead of 0.047

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by fleabag

[Suburban Man]

Well if you got it from a guitar spares shop then the chances are that its the right value. 47k would be 47,000pf which is correct.  If it was 474,000pf then its ten times too large a value.