Things that musicians do that are a waste of time!

[Aussiephoenix]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='470862' date='Apr 23 2009, 03:48 PM']If you don't learn anything about music you're likely to get stuck playing the same stuff for your entire life. Theory staves off boredom.[/quote]

I understand what you mean, but, I just wanna play man, I leave the theory to the composers. My ear tells me where I am, and from there I know where I can go. nobody ever taught me that, I just picked it up.

Still im not arguing that theory sux and all that, just that not everyone is the same. Ive tried bass books, Private tutors, video lessons, etc. interesting for about 4 mins, then off I go noodling.

dlloyd, Its NOT interesting... otherwise everyone would LOVE it.

[Bobo_Grimmer]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='470844' date='Apr 23 2009, 03:32 PM']Music theory needs to be learned in a fairly structured way for you to get the most out of it. Some musicians get the idea that they need to learn, say, the modes, and hack away at it without having any real understanding of what they're learning and why it might be useful. Then they give up on it, because it's too much to learn in one go.

The LCM have a graded popular music theory syllabus that is fantastic. To understand the material in grade 8 would be a daunting task for a beginner, but if you progress through the grades you'll get there no problem.

For instance, for preliminary grade, you have to know what constitutes C major, A natural minor, G major and E natural minor scales, how to construct C, G, Am and Em triads, what a whole, half and quarter note is, and what their respective rests are and what 4/4 time is.

If you can build on that, it's easy to understand the extra material that's required for grade 1. And from there you can easily build to grade 2.

And eventually you'll be able to build on grade 7 material, such that you understand major, natural minor, harmonic minor, melodic minor, pentatonic major, pentatonic minor, blues, Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian, chromatic, whole tone, Phrygian major, Jazz melodic minor, Lydian dominant, Superlocrian and diminished scales in every key, extended and altered chords and their inversions, odd time signatures, syncopation, fairly advanced harmony, etc. etc.

And more to the point, you'll understand why you learned them.

[url="http://www.popularmusictheory.org/"]http://www.popularmusictheory.org/[/url][/quote]

WOW! cheer's dude. I really want to get stuck in. I'm kind of starting to realize that theory is my next step in my playing but it seem's a scary thing. Hacking away without having much understanding is where i'm going wrong. I'll look into this popular music theory.

[urb]

[quote name='The Funk' post='470513' date='Apr 23 2009, 11:31 AM']Video or transcription request please. [/quote]

Nice audio version here: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNDp8JoJFM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNDp8JoJFM[/url]

Really tacky early 90s fusion video - I am a HUGE Alain Caron fan but this is a bit dated - though he does SLAP the entire head perfectly - and the ponytail is long gone now!



M

[The Funk]

Thanks Mike! I'll check those out when I get home. Such a great line.

[grumble]

[quote]Tried Teen Town etc, gave up! Tried Silly Putty, School Days, etc gave up! Tried loads of Sheehan...bad clone tone! gave up! I can't really play anything by any of the bass players I'm into. I think I give up to easily too.[/quote]

+1 on that but still doesn't stop me playing (and enjoying it). Recently gone back to where I started and dug out the Jamie Abersold stuff I first started off with and relearning some of the theory side I lost interest in.
Now if only I could get over my fear of anything smaller than a quarter note.....
Oh and if someone could pop over and show me what I'm doing wrong with my thumb when I try to slap, it acts like the equivalent of two left feet !!

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='467447' date='Apr 20 2009, 01:50 PM']I was reading the thread from the guy that wants to learn Bakithi Kumalo's line on 'You Can Call Me Al' and noted a few people said it was something they had learned/wanted to learn. Having a perverse sense of perspective, my immediate thought was 'why'?

We all do it. There is a list of bass lines that seem to be essential learning for bass players; 'Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick', 'Teen Town', 'Amazing Grace' by Wooten, that thing by Stu Hamm - you know the stuff I am talking about. It's all over YouTube.

So we all go learn it and what? We only ever play it to impress people who aren't musicians (if it looks harder than it is) or to impress other musicians (if it is harder than it looks). We waste hours of study time learning a chunk of Stanley Clarke, or a wodge of Les Claypool, a modicum of Mark King or a pinch of Jaco or Flea. We should be studying music not musicians licks. These are just party tricks not core skills.

I think its probably fair to say that the kids that don't do these things and focus on the core knowledge are probably going to be better that those that can execute the party pieces but can't really play music.

For the record, I haven't learned Kumalo's line but did do Teen Town, Berlin's 'Bach' solo, 5G, Motherlode etc and a couple of bits of Stu Hamm! I am as bad as anytime in this area of wastage but urge developing players not to waste time on juggling and 'play the damn music' Listen to the grooves and don't worry about the fills; they're not important!

Jeff Berlin is my guru - just don't make me listen to him playing! [/quote]


I learnt a Birelli Legrene tune called "Timothee" 20 years ago, lovely tune with a great solo played by Birelli himself (now, he's just got too much talent!) and 20 years later I just can't stop playing it whenever I pick my bass up.

I've recently tried to rectify this problem, and how? By learning (or trying to learn) some Marcus Miller (Scoop) and Anthony Jackson (Night Moods from "Whatcha Gonna Do For Me") tunes! Will I never learn!!??

[Jase]

[quote name='Jase' post='469639' date='Apr 22 2009, 02:44 PM']Tried Teen Town etc, gave up! Tried Silly Putty, School Days, etc gave up! Tried loads of Sheehan...bad clone tone! gave up! I can't really play anything by any of the bass players I'm into. I think I give up to easily too.[/quote]


[quote name='grumble' post='471127' date='Apr 23 2009, 10:16 PM']+1 on that but still doesn't stop me playing (and enjoying it). Recently gone back to where I started and dug out the Jamie Abersold stuff I first started off with and relearning some of the theory side I lost interest in.
Now if only I could get over my fear of anything smaller than a quarter note.....
Oh and if someone could pop over and show me what I'm doing wrong with my thumb when I try to slap, it acts like the equivalent of two left feet !![/quote]

Part of my problem is discipline, I complain about not understanding any theory (quater note???? )but I do bugger all to change it, I'm certain theory would help me as a player...but I just know that I'll never bother to find out, lazy or what? Also practice for me is hard work, I hate it, whether it's on my own or with a band.

[jakenewmanbass]

If I put my mind to it I can learn most things, takes a bit of work but I kind of agree with Bilbo that they bear little relevance to what you do for the job. (eg Bilbo, I can now play Grasshopper note for note)
But.....
I only agree up to that point.
Beyond that I think we are the sum of all the music that we have inputted over the years and (add a dash of the individual) can only really get out what has been put in.
When improvising at a higher level (which I only feel I'm only just beginning, after over 30yrs playing, to do) I feel that I am drawing on pathways of thinking and mechanics that I have taken years to acquire and they are all made up, from tiny to large measure, of all the bits that I have absorbed.

Well, that and the general reverberations of the history of man... and no I'm not on some hippy trippy vibe there. I am currently reading Dan Levitins book 'this is your brain on music' it's a fascinating read by a producer turned neuroscientist who describes how our very fibres chime with the music that has been going on around us throughout our evolution and to which we are inextricably linked. I highly recommend it to anyone who thinks about music or brains.

Edit:
(my first album sessions were a pretty heavy contemporary jazz/funk vibe with some searingly tough parts all original by now Norwegian based composer Roy Powell with Mike Walker on guitar and Iain Dixon on tenor so I discovered early that time and patience means most things eventually fall under your fingers)

Edit edit:
check out the latter tracks on my myspace page if you want to hear how bloody hard those parts were!!

Edited April 24, 2009 by jakesbass

[Bilbo]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='471237' date='Apr 24 2009, 02:18 AM'](eg Bilbo, I can now play Grasshopper note for note)[/quote]

Me too (or at least I could a long time ago!!) - bloomin' marvellous! I love the way Flim uses the whole of the 5-string and not just the low B when he builds his lines. He is, for me, THE 5-string player.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='urb' post='470909' date='Apr 23 2009, 04:31 PM']Nice audio version here: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNDp8JoJFM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNDp8JoJFM[/url]

Really tacky early 90s fusion video - I am a HUGE Alain Caron fan but this is a bit dated - though he does SLAP the entire head perfectly[/quote]
I like how close he's come to emulating an arpeggiator line. Thats something I'd be quite interested in developing myself but maybe not with slap.

[BottomEndian]

For me (as someone who's learning how to play bass fingerstyle after 5 years of pick-only), other people's tunes are a useful gauge of how far I've progressed. If I know my stupid right hand couldn't play a certain riff a few weeks ago, and I can play it now, I know I've come on a certain way with my technique. Simple but effective.

I know that once I can physically play [i]Rhythm Stick[/i], [i]Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes[/i] or [i]Rubber Shirt[/i] (Zappa), I'll feel a real sense of achievement, but I'm not interested in them being the only things I can play, and I'd never play them in public. I'd feel like Peter Griffin in that episode of Family Guy where he can play amazing piano arrangements of TV themes, but only when he's drunk.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Jase' post='471209' date='Apr 24 2009, 12:50 AM']Part of my problem is discipline, I complain about not understanding any theory (quater note???? )[/quote]

You know when you're playing and you're maybe tapping your foot in time with the beat, a lot of the time you'll be counting 1,2,3,4, 1,2,3,4, ...

...you're playing in what's called 'common time' or 4/4 time ('4/4' is read as 'four-four').

Each group of four beats is called a 'bar'. A note that lasts as long as a beat lasts a quarter of a bar (in this particular instance) and is called a 'quarter note'. A quarter note looks like a solid black oval with a stem coming out of it vertically (up or down)

A whole note lasts for a whole bar (four beats) in 4/4 and a half note lasts for half a bar (two beats)

A whole note looks like a hollow oval without a stem and a half note looks like a hollow oval with a stem.

Easy, huh?

The logic breaks down a bit when you go into other time signatures, where there are more or less than 4 quarter notes per bar, and/or the beat may not be a quarter note in length, but that's what happens when you try to simplify terminology.

[Jase]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='471483' date='Apr 24 2009, 01:30 PM']You know when you're playing and you're maybe tapping your foot in time with the beat, a lot of the time you'll be counting 1,2,3,4, 1,2,3,4, ...

...you're playing in what's called 'common time' or 4/4 time ('4/4' is read as 'four-four').

Each group of four beats is called a 'bar'. A note that lasts as long as a beat lasts a quarter of a bar (in this particular instance) and is called a 'quarter note'. A quarter note looks like a solid black oval with a stem coming out of it vertically (up or down)

A whole note lasts for a whole bar (four beats) in 4/4 and a half note lasts for half a bar (two beats)

A whole note looks like a hollow oval without a stem and a half note looks like a hollow oval with a stem.

Easy, huh?

The logic breaks down a bit when you go into other time signatures, where there are more or less than 4 quarter notes per bar, and/or the beat may not be a quarter note in length, but that's what happens when you try to simplify terminology.[/quote]


A 4/4? That's it?...what an idiot Now, if the chap had said 4/4 time then I would've got him, quater note.... didn't have a clue!
It's a bit like scales too, probably played them at one time or another but could never identify them. My theory extends to this: I know the four strings on my bass EADG and I know where the notes are on the fretboard...that's it! It's like knowing the alphabet but not being able to spell anything.

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='lowdown' post='469598' date='Apr 22 2009, 01:53 PM']'Things that musicians do that are a waste of time!, We all do it but we shouldn't....'

Endless hours of posting on Forums?....


Garry[/quote]

Ha! Good point, well made!

[Wylie]

The opening lick of the Beatles' 'Hey Bulldog'. Time to learn: 1 minute, 24 seconds. Impression value: 4.