TC Electronic Sub N Up

[Alan Wilkes]

HI

 

I am thinking of getting one fo these ( I use and like TC stuff and the tone print app), does anyone have either the standard or mini and use the Toneprint app with it? I am interested in the parameters that can be programmed?

 

Thanks in advance

 

[skidder652003]

Had the standard, liked it but sold it as I never used it gigging.

Toneprint variations were pretty wide and interesting.

Tracked well on my passive jazz.

Now I have a zoom B1Four, small footprint and loads of other effects besides an Octaver.

[Pea Turgh]

I too am looking at the TC Sub’n’Up.  I have a Zoom but the octave up is poor.

If it’s anything like the tone print compressor, it was pretty nifty out the box, so no real need to tweak.  Hopefully.

[Alan Wilkes]

11 hours ago, Pea Turgh said:

I too am looking at the TC Sub’n’Up.  I have a Zoom but the octave up is poor.

If it’s anything like the tone print compressor, it was pretty nifty out the box, so no real need to tweak.  Hopefully.

Yes the Spectracomp(Which I have) has loads of parameters to set on the Toneprint App, maybe toooo many 

[Alan Wilkes]

Just now, Alan Wilkes said:

Yes the Spectracomp(Which I have) has loads of parameters to set on the Toneprint App, maybe toooo many 

The Octaves up tend to be a little synthetic anyway on a lot of them

[MrSpace]

I have this pedal. I played with creating my own TonePrint for a bit until I got a sound I was happy with, and I haven't touched it since! Mind you I only have myself to please, if I played in a band I might pay it some more attention. I am very happy with it so far, the tracking seems good to me with both monophonic and polyphonic modes. Programmability is great, a bunch of other effects on the octave up and down such as modulation and overdrive, and various high / low cut / pass filters. Octave up does sound a little bit synthetic as they always do, but OK to my aging ears. I use it for:

- sounding a bit like a 12 string on a standard 4

- sounding a bit like Pino on fretless

- making a pleasingly dirty noise with octave up through overdrive

[Alan Wilkes]

1 hour ago, MrSpace said:

I have this pedal. I played with creating my own TonePrint for a bit until I got a sound I was happy with, and I haven't touched it since! Mind you I only have myself to please, if I played in a band I might pay it some more attention. I am very happy with it so far, the tracking seems good to me with both monophonic and polyphonic modes. Programmability is great, a bunch of other effects on the octave up and down such as modulation and overdrive, and various high / low cut / pass filters. Octave up does sound a little bit synthetic as they always do, but OK to my aging ears. I use it for:

- sounding a bit like a 12 string on a standard 4

- sounding a bit like Pino on fretless

- making a pleasingly dirty noise with octave up through overdrive

Interesting!

[warwickhunt]

On 28/06/2022 at 09:51, MrSpace said:

I have this pedal. I played with creating my own TonePrint for a bit until I got a sound I was happy with, and I haven't touched it since! Mind you I only have myself to please, if I played in a band I might pay it some more attention. I am very happy with it so far, the tracking seems good to me with both monophonic and polyphonic modes. Programmability is great, a bunch of other effects on the octave up and down such as modulation and overdrive, and various high / low cut / pass filters. Octave up does sound a little bit synthetic as they always do, but OK to my aging ears. I use it for:

- sounding a bit like a 12 string on a standard 4

- sounding a bit like Pino on fretless

- making a pleasingly dirty noise with octave up through overdrive

 

Sorry for the resurrection but your '12 string on a 4' toneprint setting; did you use a particular toneprint as a base to create your own or did you use an out of the box one?  I'm looking to replicate as close as possible the 12 string bass (4 bass strings and pairs of strings octaves up) but I'll likely need to offset/detune (subtly) the octave strings.  

[MrSpace]

I remember starting with the standard "poly default" toneprint, then I added a few effects on the octave up, I think it was chorus mainly, that gave it a bit of a "jangly" sound. Unfortunately I seem to have lost the files so I can't even show you a screenshot of the editor 🙁. At some point I will try to recreate it... 

[warwickhunt]

58 minutes ago, MrSpace said:

I remember starting with the standard "poly default" toneprint, then I added a few effects on the octave up, I think it was chorus mainly, that gave it a bit of a "jangly" sound. Unfortunately I seem to have lost the files so I can't even show you a screenshot of the editor 🙁. At some point I will try to recreate it... 

 

Oddly enough I'm using the Plethora and I use the chorus with the sub-up (dialled out all the sub down), with a touch of drive on it.  

[Baloney Balderdash]

Edit/Update!!!: This is a more recent and much improved custom Toneprint that I made for this purpose: 

 

 

 

I am extremely satisfied with the effect I get from the custom Toneprint I made, based on the "Poly Default" Toneprint template, on my Sub'N'Up Mini, for a somewhat 8 string bass like effect

 

 

I have my Sub'N'Up Mini placed second in my signal chain after the bass, right after a compressor, mind also that I have a bit of light overdrive added after to the Sub'N'Up, that is added to the summed "dry unaffected bass signal + 1 octave up signal", and that I haven't the 1 octave up effect turned up to quite the same level as would probably be normal for a real 8 string bass, so a bit more subtle, which I assume helps the 1 octave up signal to blend in better with the dry unaffected/compressed bass tone and sound more natural/less artificial, the compression right before the Sub'N'Up , but otherwise having the pedal placed as the very first thing in my signal chain after the bass, helping with feeding a more consistent signal to the Sub'N'Up, which helps it to track better tracking, and the light overdrive after I assume helping with the dry unaffected bass signal and the 1 octave up signal blending better together, that way also helping it to sound more natural and less artificial.

 

This way though it sounds surprisingly realistic and not artificial at all.

 

 

Here are the settings I use, after much experimentation. The cutting of high frequencies using a high shelve EQ filter on both the input signal that is fed to the octave engine and the output octave up signal helps with getting rid of digital artifacts as well and resulting in a more natural sounding 1 octave up effect, as did the ever so slight drive added in the Toneprint editor to the 1 octave up effect. I have all modulation in the Toneprint editor turned off, as I personally found it tends to make the octave up signal sound more artificial, but you might like to eventually add a very subtle chorus or vibrato (regular chorus/vibrato, low depth, slow rate, low mix) for the detune effect you normally would get from an 8 string bass between the regular bass strings and the octave strings. The numbers in the first tab is the actual settings I use, that is how I have the knobs set, but you might want the Wet Level Up (1 octave up level) to be slightly higher, as I, as said, have the 1 octave up signal to probably be a bit lower in the mix compared to the dry unaffected bass signal than the octave strings would likely be on a real 8 string bass (though these settings does seem to get me the most natural, least artificial, sounding, result). As said based on the Poly Default Toneprint template. (EQ link obviously not engaged) :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(you might want to set the "UP" knob rage of the, that is the level of the 1 octave up signal, to go all the way up to 0dB, as said I have it dialed in to -10dB in relation to the dry unaffected bass signal, but that is probably a bit lower than the octave strings are likely to sound on a real 8 string bass (though you should probably still expect the 1 octave up signal to be at least a couple of dB lower than the dry unaffected bass signal for a realistic 8 string bass effect)).

 

 

Edited April 9 by Baloney Balderdash

[warwickhunt]

That's really helpful, I'll have a look at that today.  

 

I've got my Plethora board set so that the compressor is first then the Sub'n'Up, followed by the chorus (using a tweaked version of Tom Hamilton's toneprint).  I also have a flanger at the end of the chain but I've not had need to use the subnup with that... that would start to get very 'vibey'.     

[Baloney Balderdash]

2 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

That's really helpful, I'll have a look at that today.  

 

I've got my Plethora board set so that the compressor is first then the Sub'n'Up, followed by the chorus (using a tweaked version of Tom Hamilton's toneprint).  I also have a flanger at the end of the chain but I've not had need to use the subnup with that... that would start to get very 'vibey'.     

 

To mimic the detune effect that happens naturally on a real 8 string bass, as a result of the octave strings usually not being absolutely 100% perfectly in tune with the corresponding bass strings, you would want to use the modulation available in the Toneprint editor, which will only be applied to the 1 octave up signal and not to the unaffected dry bass signal, as said a chorus (and not the "TriChorus", just the regular one), or maybe a vibrato effect, but dialed in to only deliver a very subtle effect, and not a chorus or vibrato placed after the Sub'N'Up pedal that would then be applied to the summed "dry unaffected bass signal + 1 octave up signal".

 

As said though I don't have the modulation in the custom Toneprint I made and use activated, as I personally prefer how it sounds it without modulation, as that as far as I am concerned sounds more natural/less artificial.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[warwickhunt]

OK yes I see what you are saying. 

[AJ567]

On 28/06/2022 at 09:51, MrSpace said:

I have this pedal. I played with creating my own TonePrint for a bit until I got a sound I was happy with, and I haven't touched it since! Mind you I only have myself to please, if I played in a band I might pay it some more attention. I am very happy with it so far, the tracking seems good to me with both monophonic and polyphonic modes. Programmability is great, a bunch of other effects on the octave up and down such as modulation and overdrive, and various high / low cut / pass filters. Octave up does sound a little bit synthetic as they always do, but OK to my aging ears. I use it for:

- sounding a bit like a 12 string on a standard 4

- sounding a bit like Pino on fretless

- making a pleasingly dirty noise with octave up through overdrive

 

Ditto, I made my toneprints years ago and haven't touched them since. I remember being very impressed at the time though, there was loads of flexibility once you get into it. Great pedal. 

[warwickhunt]

It's such a shame that when you edit the toneprints that you can't listen in real time to the changes.

[Baloney Balderdash]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

It's such a shame that when you edit the toneprints that you can't listen in real time to the changes.

 

But you can!

 

If the pedal is otherwise connected and you play your bass/guitar.

 

What I did.

 

You could also just have a looper pedal hooked up to it while adjusting.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Baloney Balderdash

[warwickhunt]

18 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

But you can!

 

If the pedal is otherwise connected and you play your bass/guitar.

 

What I did.

 

You could also just have a looper pedal hooked up to it while adjusting.

 

 

 

I know you can tweak stuff on the broader parameters while playing but I'd not tried while it was linked to the PC and you were editing toneprints in edit mode... off to give it a try.  

 

[thisisswanbon]

I bought one as a cheap replacement of a broken Cog T16, it was alright... but didn't cut the mustard as a solo'd octave down oc2 type thing (I'd read several reviews to the contrary).  Can do some great octave stuff though, they're far more than just a standard octave pedal.