fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 42 minutes ago, Grimalkin said: And what he's endorsing with that company is basically absurd bastardised StingRays, with the eq taken out. So now EBMM are trying to make their version of a Jazz bass... “What the advertiser needs to know is not what is right about the product but what is wrong about the buyer.” Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business. EBMM already did a P and a PJ model - the Caprice and whatever the other one was called. Are you complaining about them too? Aren't they just absurdly bastardised versions of Fenders? What about the Fender Dimension basses - are you complaining that Fender made their own version of a Stingray? Is a Jazz bass with an active circuit an "absurd bastardised" jazz because the originals didn't have an active EQ? EBMM did a short scale passive Stingray before the JD version. I note you said you were offered a Warwick. I find that particularly amusing as Warwick copied the Spectors. Why would you accept such an adsurdly bastardised instrument? You seem to have difficulty in accepting that different people like different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimalkin Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, fretmeister said: Who made you the gatekeeper of what is and what isn't funk? No one. I'm asking which of those tracks sounds like funk to you? You could answer the question, rather than go for the strawman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) Just now, Grimalkin said: No one. I'm asking which of those tracks sounds like funk to you? You could answer the question, rather than go for the strawman. Both do. Just like there's a massive difference between John Lee Hooker and Eric Gales but both are blues. Edited February 3, 2022 by fretmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Horse Murphy Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, ezbass said: How do you feel about Pino's 'chicken' bob? He doesn't see my to do it as much, but he is very tall so maybe I just don't notice it due to poor eyesight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimalkin Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, fretmeister said: Both do. I think the Vulfpeck thing sounds like a chattering train track. I don't think it's funky at all. That's my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 So are we excited by this new bass or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, Grimalkin said: I think the Vulfpeck thing sounds like a chattering train track. I don't think it's funky at all. That's my opinion. That's fine. Nobody is denying you your opinion. But why are you unable to accept that other people have different opinions? You seem to be taking Vulf / JD's existence very badly to the point you made a quote about what was wrong with the customers! You'll give yourself an ulcer at this rate. So - is an active jazz bass an "absurdly bastardised" version of the original passive jazz basses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, acidbass said: So are we excited by this new bass or? I think it would look very nice in a black stain. Not too keen on the bare look when it is such a light colour. I doubt it would get me away from my Sandberg J type though - well, not unless it's even lighter in weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, fretmeister said: I think it would look very nice in a black stain. Not too keen on the bare look when it is such a light colour. I doubt it would get me away from my Sandberg J type though - well, not unless it's even lighter in weight. Didn't they make a Joe Dart H Sterling in black stain? Could be a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimalkin Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, fretmeister said: You seem to be taking Vulf / JD's existence very badly to the point you made a quote about what was wrong with the customers! You'll give yourself an ulcer at this rate. So - is an active jazz bass an "absurdly bastardised" version of the original passive jazz basses? “The principles underlying propaganda are extremely simple. Find some common desire, some widespread unconscious fear or anxiety; think out some way to relate this wish or fear to the product you have to sell; then build a bridge of verbal or pictorial symbols over which your customer can pass from fact to compensatory dream, and from the dream to the illusion that your product, when purchased, will make the dream come true. They are selling hope." Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited. A Joe Dart whatever won't make you play like Joe Dart. Also look up 'Final Stage Capitalism.' When manufacturers have run out of ideas, they market any old absurdity, to keep the wheels of industry turning. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Grimalkin said: “The principles underlying propaganda are extremely simple. Find some common desire, some widespread unconscious fear or anxiety; think out some way to relate this wish or fear to the product you have to sell; then build a bridge of verbal or pictorial symbols over which your customer can pass from fact to compensatory dream, and from the dream to the illusion that your product, when purchased, will make the dream come true. They are selling hope." Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited. A Joe Dart whatever won't make you play like Joe Dart. Also look up 'Final Stage Capitalism.' When manufacturers have run out of ideas, they market any old absurdity, to keep the wheels of industry turning. Nice strawman about not being able to play like Joe Dart too. I think you complained about a strawman question earlier. Where did anyone claim that owning such an instrument would make them play like JD? Do you visit guitar forums to complain about the existence of Steve Vai Ibanez guitars? Or maybe even the Les Paul? You could answer the question rather than avoid it. Is the active Jazz bass an "absurd bastardised" version of the traditional jazz? No irrelevant quotes needed. Yes or no will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimalkin Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, fretmeister said: Nice strawman about not being able to play like Joe Dart too. I think you complained about a strawman question earlier. Where did anyone claim that owning such an instrument would make them play like JD? Do you visit guitar forums to complain about the existence of Steve Vai Ibanez guitars? Or maybe even the Les Paul? You could answer the question rather than avoid it. Is the active Jazz bass an "absurd bastardised" version of the traditional jazz? No irrelevant quotes needed. Yes or no will do. Yes. You should have stayed in school. Edited February 3, 2022 by Grimalkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) This looks pretty cool and a natural progression as Joe did use a Jazz for a lot of the Vulfpeck stuff as well. If MusicMan have got the quality down and he likes the neck then why not get them to make a JJ bass, let’s face it every other manufacturer has. In relation to a question about how he gets so many and why didn’t flea/Pino etc, I believe reading that Jack Stratton from Vulfpeck financed the first run of basses, and I would guess that he has done the same since, hence small runs of each type of bass so they aren’t left with thousands of unsold basses. I don’t know if anyone remembers the Talkbass thread about 19mm spacing on Stingray 5 strings? Sterling ball basically said if he got enough pre-orders for that spec by a certain date he would make them. Predictably no-one followed up on it, but given that history it makes sense that he would take a commission for a run of basses from a fairly well know band/player if there was little to no risk in it for him. I bet we could get a basschat spec MusicMan if coughed up enough money, but I doubt we could get more than half a dozen people to agree on the spec. Edited February 3, 2022 by NJE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Grimalkin said: Yes. You should have stayed in school. Ad hominem now? Really? I stayed in "school" to well beyond post grad. Why don't you want to answer the question. Is the active Jazz bass an "absurd bastardised" version of the traditional jazz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Doddy said: I find it interesting that Ernie Ball are doing so many custom/signature instruments for Joe Dart, but wouldn't for some of their biggest users (Flea/Pino/Levin for example). Judging by their guitar range I think in the past when Music Man have done a signature guitar they've tended to design a completely new model with that artist, rather than just pop a signature on a model they already make. The Joe Dart Rays just about fit with that in that they have none standard electronics albeit in a Stingray body. Edited February 3, 2022 by Cato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, NJE said: This looks pretty cool and a natural progression as Joe did use a Jazz for a lot of the Vulfpeck stuff as well. If MusicMan have got the quality down and he likes the neck then why not get them to make a JJ bass, let’s face it every other manufacturer has. In relation to a question about how he gets so many and why didn’t flea/Pino etc, I believe reading that Jack Stratton from Vulfpeck financed the first run of basses, and I would guess that he has done the same since, hence small runs of each type of bass so they aren’t left with thousands of unsold basses. I don’t know if anyone remembers the Talkbass thread about 19mm spacing on Stingray 5 strings? Sterling ball basically said if he got enough pre-orders for that spec by a certain date he would make them. Predictably no-one followed up on it, but given that history it makes sense that he would take a commission for a run of basses from a fairly well know band/player of there was little to no risk in it for him. I bet we could get a basschat spec MusicMan if coughed up enough money, but I doubt we could get more than half a dozen people to agree on the spec. And the origin of signature models often start with an individual artist's needs that once seen by the public thinks "I'd like to try that too" I get why EBMM didn't do a Flea model - because he played stock ones, so what was the point? Or maybe backstage there was an issue that Flea swaps basses live quite a bit and maybe EBMM wanted someone to only play a signature model in a particular environment at the time. Who knows!? Only Sterling and Flea probably. The Mike Herrara sig model is an odd one though - it's passive but still has dummy knobs to make it look like a regular 'ray. The pickup is wired directly to the output. Even the volume control is a dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimalkin Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, fretmeister said: Ad hominem now? Really? I stayed in "school" to well beyond post grad. Why don't you want to answer the question. Is the active Jazz bass an "absurd bastardised" version of the traditional jazz? Why not just buy a Jazz bass? Why not just buy a StingRay? If you don't understand the principles of advertising, that's not my fault. Remind me what the question is again, I'm losing interest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Cato said: Judging by their guitar range I think in the past when Music Man have done a signature guitar they've tended to design a completely new model with that artist, rather than just pop a signature on a model they already make. The Joe Dart Rays just about fit with that in that they have none standard electronics albeit in a Stingray body. The big one is a Sterling body and neck. The Short scale is a Ray. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 35 minutes ago, acidbass said: Didn't they make a Joe Dart H Sterling in black stain? Could be a possibility. They do - it looks great. I'd probably ask if the pickup could have a black cover though. I love that black & maple look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Grimalkin said: Why not just buy a Jazz bass? Why not just buy a StingRay? If you don't understand the principles of advertising, that's not my fault. Remind me what the question is again, I'm losing interest. You quoted the question. You continue to avoid answering it. You resort to ad hominem comments instead. You now attempt to move the goalposts by referring to the principles of advertising instead of actually answering the question which doesn't have anything to do with advertising. The question is: Is the active Jazz bass an "absurd bastardised" version of the traditional jazz? Are you going to answer that very simple question or are you going to find yet another way to avoid it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimalkin Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, fretmeister said: You quoted the question. You continue to avoid answering it. You resort to ad hominem comments instead. You now attempt to move the goalposts by referring to the principles of advertising instead of actually answering the question which doesn't have anything to do with advertising. The question is: Is the active Jazz bass an "absurd bastardised" version of the traditional jazz? Are you going to answer that very simple question or are you going to find yet another way to avoid it? Yes. It's trying to be something it's not... Edited February 3, 2022 by Grimalkin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimalkin Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Endless talk of products, next to nothing about actually playing them. I t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ consume, therefore I am. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Grimalkin said: Yes. It's trying to be something it's not... Aren’t we all darling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Grimalkin said: Yes. It's trying to be something it's not... I see. More gatekeeping. Exactly the sort of approach that prevents innovation and development. Not just of products, but of ideas themselves. With that approach we'd still be using stone axes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Grimalkin said: Endless talk of products, next to nothing about actually playing them. I t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ consume, therefore I am. You're a member of a forum that celebrates all elements of bass. From their invention / construction / development... all the way through to playing them and enjoying the music of others who play them. "They Live" was not a documentary. If that is what you see when should be thinking about things that encourage / inspire / please you, then you are not going to do your health any good at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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