Jazz basses, what's the point?

[Misdee]

14 hours ago, TheGhostofJaco said:

I personally think a fender gets through the mix better for me. The sadowsky has amazing tone but it disappears a bit in the mix, when the fender just sits in a beautiful space. I should say that my fender is actually a Moollon and it has a very warm and rich tone to it. 
 

I just played on a dance track with both and the Moollon won. Sat on top of the kick as was super clear to hear in the mix. 
 

Active basses sometimes have that compressed sound that can be amazing for slapping but can work against when playing finger style.  Sadowsky moreso because the mids are more scooped. Not that they won’t work or anything, but it matter what you are looking for. 

 

 I totally agree that there's respective merits to traditional Fender-style style Jazz Basses and more modern active versions.

 

I think a lot depends on how, or indeed if, you use the Sadowsky preamp. With a two band boost-only preamp there is a tendency for players to boost treble and bass, and the inevitable consequences is that it makes Sadowsky basses sound more recessed in the midrange. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but as you quite rightly point out, it's not what you want in certain situations.

 

I'm not a huge fan of that modern scooped-out, thump and sizzle Jazz Bass tone.  Marcus Miller makes it sound great but it's tiresome that so many players just want to copy that tone. For years I shied away from active Jazz-style basses for exactly that reason.

 

However, it's quite possible to EQ a Sadowsky so it sounds anything but scooped. Not least of all, those basses sound good either in passive mode or active but with no added boost or just a little bit. Or add some mids externally and boost the bass or treble (but not both) depending on whether you want to be deep or bright and bit more gritty. You can also attenuate with the VTC. There's lots of ways approach it. 

 

Also, being able to pan between the two pickups on a Sadowsky opens up a lot of tonal possibilities that can be harder to achieve on a conventional passive Jazz with two volume controls.

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

Maybe my ears are puny or I'm easy to please, but I don't get these problems despite switching between wildly different basses.

[Woodinblack]

3 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Maybe my ears are puny or I'm easy to please, but I don't get these problems despite switching between wildly different basses.

 

I don't - but then I am convinced that a lot of people listen with their eyes!

[HeadlessBassist]

There was a very interesting edition of All About The Bass [I think it was the one comparing lots of outboard Preamps] I watched the other day, where the supposedly 'funny man' who sits in between Lee & Cici actually mentioned that "Jazz basses need a little help" and took the bass and treble up to about 2 o'clock. This makes the whole thing sound richer and punchier, without really accentuating the 'scoop'. Good quality passive Jazz basses usually have very natural low mids and the active ones do sound empty if they're not present. I use the same method of eq-ing my passive Jazzes and usually get fantastically rich sounding results.

Edited 6 hours ago by HeadlessBassist

[TheGhostofJaco]

12 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

I've never heard Will Lee "disappear into the mix" and neither does my Sadowsky MV5 Jazz.

 

IMO when basses don't cut through it's due to user error. When they haven't been EQ'd correctly or when the signal chain isn't working in harmony.

nah. It’s a different sound. I’ve been playing on records for years so I know what sound I need for certain tracks. And there is a difference in mid presence there. We sat and A/Bd it. Will Lee plays very different music as well. 
 

it’s not user error in this case. It’s just a case of being lucky enough to have both basses and picking which one works best for which tracks. 

[TheGhostofJaco]

1 hour ago, HeadlessBassist said:

There was a very interesting edition of All About The Bass [I think it was the one comparing lots of outboard Preamps] I watched the other day, where the supposedly 'funny man' who sits in between Lee & Cici actually mentioned that "Jazz basses need a little help" and took the bass and treble up to about 2 o'clock. This makes the whole thing sound richer and punchier, without really accentuating the 'scoop'. Good quality passive Jazz basses usually have very natural low mids and the active ones do sound empty if they're not present. I use the same method of eq-ing my passive Jazzes and usually get fantastically rich sounding results.

this brings up a good point. I agree and use a preamp as well. And it’s a different sound than with the active bass. One big reason is the buffer from the preamp. Another one is the tone knob on the passive bass is rolled off before you eq. So it’s quite a nice sound with a little boost. 
 

Sounds like we have the same experience with the mids. Also the traditional fender volume knobs let me roll them both off a bit which takes the scoop out of both pickups being on. On a sadowsky that is not an option. So they really are different beasts. Both great at what they do, but they do it in a different manner. There is no doubt about that. 

[TheGhostofJaco]

15 hours ago, Terry M. said:

I've never heard this said before about Sadowskys 🤔

 

Interestingly I've had passive Fender Jazz basses that disappeared into the mix with both pickups on full.

 

And I just hung with a guy who plays on a ton of big country records who switched off of Sadowskys years ago because they disappeared for him as well. I don't play on country records, but the point is that it is contextual based on the musical material. Also huge difference between live and on a record. I'm speaking of in the studio. Live, I love the light weight of the sadowsky, it is a joy to play, and a go to for me.

 

A Passive fender jazz with both pickups on full is great if slapped or overdriven and played with a pick. That is personally the only time I would have both volume puts fully open on a jazz bass though. It is trickier to mix a jazz bass - active, passive - whatever brand. But the secret many times is in the low mids, which is where I prefer the old passive Fenders.

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, HeadlessBassist said:

There was a very interesting edition of All About The Bass [I think it was the one comparing lots of outboard Preamps] I watched the other day, where the supposedly 'funny man' who sits in between Lee & Cici actually mentioned that "Jazz basses need a little help" and took the bass and treble up to about 2 o'clock. This makes the whole thing sound richer and punchier, without really accentuating the 'scoop'. Good quality passive Jazz basses usually have very natural low mids and the active ones do sound empty if they're not present. I use the same method of eq-ing my passive Jazzes and usually get fantastically rich sounding results.

 

Amps vary, many have scoop built in, but on Saturday I dialed in about 1 o'clock of bass and treble for my Flea jazz... partly intuitive as we were in an outdoor marquee so I felt the bottom end would need a bit of help, and the treble would add clank when I needed it.

 

Lots of slamming the strings agsindt the frets later I don't think I suffered any lack of presence or cut through.

 

One of my brothers was in the audience and made an interestng observation... my sound had a good full bottom end, unless he stood close to the pub wall that was opposite us.