Noisy Pedals - Can I Avoid It?

[Samfordia]

I was in a different rehearsal room yesterday and used their amp. It was an Ampeg head with two Ampeg cabs. I don't know the actual model but I could work it out if need be.

There probably isn't much chance of me using it again as I am moving into a residency on Friday but I would like to learn about why this happened and how I could maybe avoid it in the future.

Two pedals were causing quite a bit of noise when activated and it was highly frustrating. One of them was an Empress Compressor that gave off a lot of white noise. It wasn't all that noticeable when playing though, especially given that it's an always on pedal for me. Then there was a Wren and Cuff Pickle Pie fuzz that was insanely loud. If I activated it there would be all sorts of feedback and unwanted noise coming from the amp.

After I have finished my pedal board, which is very close to being completed (if that's even possible!), I'll be needing to learn a lot about amps so anything you could suggest or inform me of would be great. Is there something I have been missing? Something I should be doing?

(EDIT: I had totally forgotten about the pickup thing too. I have a P/J and when I switched to anything that involved my bridge pickup it gave unwanted feedback)

Edited February 15, 2016 by Samfordia

[Skybone]

Fluctuations in the power supply. Had similar issues when my old band used a different room in the rehearsal studio we used at the time, went through everything I could think of, but the noise was still there. The other rooms never had any issues, just this 1 room.

[elephantgrey]

Usually i would suggest an isolated power supply (might still help). The problem with diagnosing your specific pedals is:
i) your compressor, compressors make the quite bits of a signal louder. This includes your noise floor (the background level of noise that is in every signal to varying degrees). If you have a particularly harsh compression settings then it is possible that the noise you are hearing is just the noise from the chain before it (even if its just from your guitar itself).
ii) fuzz. fuzzes are loud, and famous for amplifying and distorting everything, including your noise floor. This is why alot of fuzz pedals include a noise gate after their fuzz circuit. This cuts out all the noise that is created when you arent playing.

TLDR: So my advice is, try a less intense compression setting, try a noise gate after the fuzz, and try powering your pedals from an isolated supply.

[Samfordia]

Some added information to help you help me:

My Empress Compressor was actually set with everything at 12. The issue was the same when using 2:1, 4:1 and 10:1.
To power my board I use a GigRig Generator with Distributors and a Doubler for my Empress. I'm not entirely understanding what an isolated power supply is, but perhaps I'm already using one?

A noise gate is something I know nothing about so thanks for giving me a lead on learning something new. I shall look into that right away.

(EDIT: I had totally forgotten about the pickup thing too. I have a P/J and when I switched to anything that involved my bridge pickup it gave unwanted feedback)

Edited February 15, 2016 by Samfordia

[dannybuoy]

Could be any combination ofthe following!

Some pedals are just noisy. My Aguilar Agro has a white noise hiss no matter how I power or isolate it.

Some are susceptible to radio interference.

Some pedals amplify the hell out of any existing noise and cause feedback. Big Muffs do it, the worst I've heard for this is the Boss ODB-3.

Also some pedals leak noise into the power supply where it enters other pedals if they are sharing the same supply. A lot of Zoom and EHX digital effects do this. There is a workaround to wire a capacitor up to the DC jack to perform some filtering that I've seen someone have success with in a recent Talkbass thread!

[elephantgrey]

The doubler isolates your compressor. For the rest of them Gigrig do an [url="http://www.thegigrig.co.uk/isolator-c2x15357227"]Isolator[/url]. Isolated power supplies separate all the outputs of a supply so they are not all interfering with eachother. The distributors are basically daisy chains (although they are nice and neat).
In my system i run my generator via a daisy chain into 3 isolators, a supernova, an evenflo adapters and a distributor (some pedals don't really like isolated outputs, but it's best to isolate if you can).

I use a noisegate on my zoom ms60b to cut out the noise from my dirt pedals. How i set it was to set threshold to minimum (so it does nothing), engage all my pedals, and increase the threshold (without playing) until the background noise just stops.

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1455564491' post='2980291']
The doubler isolates your compressor. For the rest of them Gigrig do an [url="http://www.thegigrig.co.uk/isolator-c2x15357227"]Isolator[/url]. Isolated power supplies separate all the outputs of a supply so they are not all interfering with eachother. The distributors are basically daisy chains (although they are nice and neat).
In my system i run my generator via a daisy chain into 3 isolators, a supernova, an evenflo adapters and a distributor (some pedals don't really like isolated outputs, but it's best to isolate if you can).

I use a noisegate on my zoom ms60b to cut out the noise from my dirt pedals. How i set it was to set threshold to minimum (so it does nothing), engage all my pedals, and increase the threshold (without playing) until the background noise just stops.
[/quote]

If you aren't running that Zoom isolated, you might find your pedals are extra noisy just by having it plugged into the power supply. I've always run a daisy chain, and always had to relegate any Zoom or EHX digital pedals to their own separate 9v supply to cure noise issues.

[Samfordia]

[quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1455564491' post='2980291']
The doubler isolates your compressor. For the rest of them Gigrig do an [url="http://www.thegigrig.co.uk/isolator-c2x15357227"]Isolator[/url]. Isolated power supplies separate all the outputs of a supply so they are not all interfering with eachother. The distributors are basically daisy chains (although they are nice and neat).
In my system i run my generator via a daisy chain into 3 isolators, a supernova, an evenflo adapters and a distributor (some pedals don't really like isolated outputs, but it's best to isolate if you can).
[/quote]

Ah, that was a huge help. I actually have Isolators. My Generator powers a Distributor, and the two Isolators come from the Distributor. I have just looked and my fuzz was coming directly from the Distributor as the Isolators are full. This was different from when I used it last as I changed my layout slightly. Using the isolator with the fuzz will certainly help then.

Just so I understand.. Your Generator powers multiple things as opposed to just powering the Distributor? If so, do your Isolators not hook up with your Distributor at all?

[elephantgrey]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1455564890' post='2980296']
If you aren't running that Zoom isolated, you might find your pedals are extra noisy just by having it plugged into the power supply. I've always run a daisy chain, and always had to relegate any Zoom or EHX digital pedals to their own separate 9v supply to cure noise issues.
[/quote]
just had to check there, but my zoom is on isolator #2. pedals that are from my distributor (not isolated) are: chase bliss wombtone, DHA blend pedal, and mooer lofi machine.

[elephantgrey]

[quote name='Samfordia' timestamp='1455565140' post='2980301']
Ah, that was a huge help. I actually have Isolators. My Generator powers a Distributor, and the two Isolators come from the Distributor. I have just looked and my fuzz was coming directly from the Distributor as the Isolators are full. This was different from when I used it last as I changed my layout slightly. Using the isolator with the fuzz will certainly help then.

Just so I understand.. Your Generator powers multiple things as opposed to just powering the Distributor? If so, do your Isolators not hook up with your Distributor at all?
[/quote]

I use a daisy chain cable (like one of [url="https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=daisychain+cable&tbm=shop"]these[/url]) to connect all my gigrig bits together. Basically the distributor is the same as those, but make the leads a bit neater.

Edit: i would photo how ive got it all set up, but as i change my board about so often i haven't gotten around to cutting the leads down/tidying it all up. Its such a mess at the moment im too embarrassed to show it >.<.


edit #2: If i didnt make it clear, i use a daisychain just to free up my distributor. it means i have it available for effects instead of using it to power all my isolators and adaptors.

Edited February 15, 2016 by elephantgrey

[Samfordia]

So I could free up some space by using a daisy chain to power all of them as opposed to the Distributor going into two Isolators and a Doubler. At present I only have one space left to power a pedal, but if I'm understanding correctly then using the daisy chain will give me three extra.

[elephantgrey]

[quote name='Samfordia' timestamp='1455565635' post='2980311']
So I could free up some space by using a daisy chain to power all of them as opposed to the Distributor going into two Isolators and a Doubler. At present I only have one space left to power a pedal, but if I'm understanding correctly then using the daisy chain will give me three extra.
[/quote]

yeah, use a daisy chain to connect everything together underboard (well, i have my power stuff under), and then use all your distributor places for effects =D.

[Samfordia]

Major help! Thank you very much.

[elephantgrey]

Glad i could help.

[GazWills]

the noise with the jazz pickup, and not the P, could be related to 60 cycle hum?

and as for feedback when turning on the wren and cuff, how close were you stood to that ampeg and two cabs setup - I would expect lots of feedback stepping on a muff and being within a couple of metres of that rig!

[Samfordia]

[quote name='GazWills' timestamp='1455569099' post='2980365']
the noise with the jazz pickup, and not the P, could be related to 60 cycle hum?

and as for feedback when turning on the wren and cuff, how close were you stood to that ampeg and two cabs setup - I would expect lots of feedback stepping on a muff and being within a couple of metres of that rig!
[/quote]

I was a decent distance away really. My lead is 3m and it was pretty much fully extended.

I have no idea what 60 cycle hum is, but I shall have a search around to learn more.

[GazWills]

without knowing your normal amp setup - i get a lot of feedback with I step on my wren and cuff TFR, stood probably 2-3m from my amp, but another couple of feet and I'm out of range

Edited February 15, 2016 by GazWills

[cheddatom]

feedback won't be anything to do with power supply, it's just what happens when you've got a load of compression AND fuzz going on at the same time, if you're stood within range. Turn down the gain on the fuzz and make the threshold higher on your compressor to give yourself more headroom. Either that or get a wireless and stand on the other side of the room

[uncle psychosis]

One possibility for the pickup feedback problem is that the pickup has gone microphonic. I suspect this is unlikely and it was actually caused by the other problems you were experiencing but it may be worth checking out.

[hubrad]

Another thing strikes me.. what's your normal rig?
If you have a 'normal' amp and it sits at floor level, firing past your ankles, you'll barely hear anything compared to a 'good' amp on a stack so now one cab is pretty much firing at your head. Same with feedback - firing past your ankles vs. firing straight at your bass.