LITTLEWING Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Here's one for ya......Which is best - Angling a pickup or staggering the polepieces (where applicable) ? My old Westone Thunder 1A has adjustable polepieces. I've angled the split pups to suit the distances from the pups to the strings and all sounds pretty darn sweet and balanced, but would it be more aurally beneficial to leave the pups flat with the E and G at sensible distances and raise the pieces for the A and D in an arc as per fret radius? I know it's all down to the pup's magnetic field to transmit the vibes but how would the raised pieces enhance (or not??) the volume/tone? Ol' Leo recognised this and manufactured staggered poles on his Strat, so there must be something in it. (but then, Jazz and Stingray pups etc. are all at one level and they always somehow sound just superbly right. Damn this electrickery stuff........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I can't see there'd be much if any difference between angling the pickup to adjust string to pole distance and height adjustable pole pieces - both achieve the same end. As you say though, 'flat' pickups can still offer a decent string to string balance though I seem to remember reading about weak Gs on some Stingrays. I wonder what the tolerances are in general for getting a decent volume and tone when it comes to setting pickup height? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iiipopes Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Well, yes, there is a difference. If the poles are higher in proportion to the coils, that makes for a little thinner tone with more articulation or edge. If the poles are lower in proportion to the coils, that takes the edge off the articulation and gives a little more warmth to the response. Like everything else, experimenting to find the "sweet spot" can take a little time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 No matter what i've tried, i've never managed to balance a P in the neck volume with a J in the bridge, even with adjustable poles I guess it depends on the pup builder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_black Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I'm pretty sure the adjustable poles are there to make the pickup "follow" the fingerboard radius. It's something you can't do simply tilting the pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfretrock Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1449638289' post='2925408'] No matter what i've tried, i've never managed to balance a P in the neck volume with a J in the bridge, even with adjustable poles I guess it depends on the pup builder [/quote] The signal produced by a pickup is proportional to the velocity of the string vibration. Since the string over the P has a greater displacement than over the J, it will have higher velocity and may give a higher output. There are some things pickup makers can do to adjust this but I suspect the velocity difference is quite large. My 10 cents of guesswork! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_black Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Besides the P is composed by two coils in series... a lot of wire around the magnets and the impedance is doubled for the series wiring. A single coil must be pretty big to achieve a good balance. Or you have to set the P much lower than the J. Another issue: the P picks up a portion of the string that moves a lot, while the J picks up a portion of the string much closer to the bridge, weaker and much smaller in movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Both good points and i'm aware of them, but those reasons are why i said i have never found a balance of volume between them. No one has wound a J that will balance out put at the bridge with a P at the neck. And i've never managed to lower a P pup far enough to lower the out put while jacking up the the J as far as possible. They still dont balance This is why I favour the amp i currently use, a Carvin BX1600. When switching from P to J, i can kick in the defeatable graphic. Problem solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_black Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Once I made a J for this specific problem. If I remember correctly, the impedance was over 11K... a simply overwound coil, nothing special. But honestly, even if the owner was happy, it didn't make much sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Why did it not make sense. Was the J tone pretty nasty @ 11k ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_black Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I didn't like the sound much but the guy had a very hot P bass pickup in center position... don't remember the brand/model though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1451852643' post='2944089'] Both good points and i'm aware of them, but those reasons are why i said i have never found a balance of volume between them. No one has wound a J that will balance out put at the bridge with a P at the neck. [/quote] I'd say Yamaha have pretty much nailed it with my BB1024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Matte_black' timestamp='1451852965' post='2944095'] I didn't like the sound much but the guy had a very hot P bass pickup in center position... don't remember the brand/model though. [/quote] You think the better option was to fit a lower out put P pup ? Edited January 3, 2016 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_black Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I didn't have the bass here to check the pickup height but of course I would have tried to find a balance in some other way or use a different split coil, yes. I don't usually like the sound of overwound pickups but in that case the guy just needed very hot output, the tone was only second in order of importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfretrock Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 [quote name='Matte_black' timestamp='1451852296' post='2944083'] Besides the P is composed by two coils in series... a lot of wire around the magnets and the impedance is doubled for the series wiring. [/quote] Not necessarily. Seymour Duncan SPB-3 and SJB-3 have similar DC resistance of about 12K-13K and similar inductance of 8H. Each half of the P has less windings that the J., so the two P half in series is similar to a J. I think this is fairly typical for split pickups [quote] Another issue: the P picks up a portion of the string that moves a lot, while the J picks up a portion of the string much closer to the bridge, weaker and much smaller in movement. [/quote] See post #6. its not actually the displacement, but the velocity that determines the output. But since a greater displacement has a greater velocity, bigger movement equates to bigger signal. (minor point, but I'm a geeky anorak) Another factor difficult to measure is the frequency response of the pickup, which is not flat, but will have a peak frequency somewhere and drop off rapidly either side. I've had two instances where the G string is absurdly loud, one a Squier Telebass neck humbucker and a Harley Benton P. I suspect the frequency response was giving a high output, in both cases I had to lower the treble side considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 [quote name='Matte_black' timestamp='1451845970' post='2943975'] I'm pretty sure the adjustable poles are there to make the pickup "follow" the fingerboard radius. It's something you can't do simply tilting the pickup. [/quote] That's true for pickups where the whole body of the pickup is a single unit like a single coil J or a humbucker but the Westone Thunder has a split P and you can adjust the angle of each half to follow the individual string heights/fingerboard radius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_black Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I guess the SPB3 is made to be used in a "set" while the split coil of the guy wasn't... otherwise I guess he would have bought it. Or maybe the J of the set wasn't powerful enough? Not sure, it's been a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfretrock Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 [quote name='Matte_black' timestamp='1451854852' post='2944123'] I guess the SPB3 is made to be used in a "set" while the split coil of the guy wasn't... otherwise I guess he would have bought it. Or maybe the J of the set wasn't powerful enough? Not sure, it's been a few years ago. [/quote] Yes I assume they are intended as a set. Not much to be done to increase the J output. More wire would kill treble and be counterproductive for that position. Stronger magnets would mess with the vibration of the string, As would very small pickup-string distance. It's the lower string output at the bridge that will always be a problem. But I note the BB1024 may have stronger bridge magnets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Surely a good reason to go P/P rather than P/J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Could you wire the P pickup in parallel instead of series to reduce the output a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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