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RickenFakers

Happy Jack

By Happy Jack,
in Bass Guitars

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

Posted
Posted

An erm, [i]interesting[/i] fretless example, apparently by Slovenian master luthier Ignac Zaletelj:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190405207557"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=190405207557[/url]

That John Shuker, he must be sweating... :)

J.

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The Twickerman Enthusiast

The Twickerman

Posted
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[quote name='Bassassin' post='868409' date='Jun 15 2010, 08:52 PM']An erm, [i]interesting[/i] fretless example, apparently by Slovenian master luthier Ignac Zaletelj:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190405207557"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=190405207557[/url]

That John Shuker, he must be sweating... :)

J.[/quote]

Removed.

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='The Twickerman' post='869055' date='Jun 16 2010, 02:19 PM']Removed.[/quote]
Not surprised - I found the link on Rickresource so it would have been slated for termination already.

However there's some lovely craftsmanship on Ignac Zaletelj's site, and no signs of shonky Rick copies:

[url="http://www.zn-guitars.com/?lang=en"]http://www.zn-guitars.com/?lang=en[/url]

I'm having some doubts as to whether this thing was ever anything to do with him.

J.

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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This one might deserve a thread of its own:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-4003-Bass-Guitar-hard-case-/200484280773"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-4003-Ba...e-/200484280773[/url]

This goes beyond being a Faker - it's a brand-new, full-blown counterfeit, and the first one I've ever seen. Time for Mr Hall to start bulk-buying the adult nappies, I think. :)

J.

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Mr. Foxen Veteran

Mr. Foxen

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='869582' date='Jun 17 2010, 12:00 AM']This one might deserve a thread of its own:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-4003-Bass-Guitar-hard-case-/200484280773"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-4003-Ba...e-/200484280773[/url]

This goes beyond being a Faker - it's a brand-new, full-blown counterfeit, and the first one I've ever seen. Time for Mr Hall to start bulk-buying the adult nappies, I think. :)

J.[/quote]


What is the giveaway?

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

Posted
Posted (edited)

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='869586' date='Jun 17 2010, 12:05 AM']What is the giveaway?[/quote]
There are dozens! Pretty much every small detail is a case of almost-but-not-quite right.

If anyone's remotely intertested I might do a list tomorrow when I'm a bit less bleary-eyed.

EDIT: Actually this is even faker than I thought - with the exception of the headstock shot, all of the pics are renders:

[url="http://raykit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/04/3d-bass-guitar/"]http://raykit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/04/3d-bass-guitar/[/url]

Bloody hell. :)

J.

Edited by Bassassin
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The Twickerman Enthusiast

The Twickerman

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='869600' date='Jun 17 2010, 01:01 AM']There are dozens! Pretty much every small detail is a case of almost-but-not-quite right.

If anyone's remotely intertested I might do a list tomorrow when I'm a bit less bleary-eyed.

EDIT: Actually this is even faker than I thought - with the exception of the headstock shot, all of the pics are renders:

[url="http://raykit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/04/3d-bass-guitar/"]http://raykit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/04/3d-bass-guitar/[/url]

Bloody hell. :)

J.[/quote]

Is it even real????

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Bloodaxe Collaborator

Bloodaxe

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Posted

[quote name='Bassassin' post='869600' date='Jun 17 2010, 01:01 AM']There are dozens! Pretty much every small detail is a case of almost-but-not-quite right.

If anyone's remotely intertested I might do a list tomorrow when I'm a bit less bleary-eyed.

EDIT: Actually this is even faker than I thought - with the exception of the headstock shot, all of the pics are renders:

[url="http://raykit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/04/3d-bass-guitar/"]http://raykit.co.uk/blog/2009/07/04/3d-bass-guitar/[/url]

Bloody hell. :)

J.[/quote]

I reckon the headstock shot is as well, which suggests that there may be a connection between the seller & the artist. They're also selling a 3D rendering of a golf club and a jpeg of a video game - caveat emptor methinks.

P.

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='The Twickerman' post='869644' date='Jun 17 2010, 08:12 AM']Is it even real????[/quote]
Presumably not - if he had an actual bass to sell, why wouldn't he take some pics - or at least use real Rickenbacker photos?

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='869645' date='Jun 17 2010, 08:13 AM']I reckon the headstock shot is as well, which suggests that there may be a connection between the seller & the artist. They're also selling a 3D rendering of a golf club and a jpeg of a video game - caveat emptor methinks.

P.[/quote]

The headstock pic isn't from the same digital model as the others, whether it's a render or not - the wings are much darker on the pics of the full bass, & the background's different.

It might be the artist, or just some particularly dim scammer who found his site & stole some pics.

J.

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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Looks like a hacked account to me. The "seller" had only ever bought on eBay before and their account had been unused for over 6 months.

I'm guessing that if the scammer hadn't left the URL on the first pic none of us would have ever known that it wasn't even real!

If you go to the artists site and read through all the WiP posts on the bass model you'll see that he didn't have an actual Rickenbacker bass to work from and just used pictures that he found, which would explain why Jon found loads of discrepancies between his version and the real thing.

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Dave Vader Proficient

Dave Vader

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='876634' date='Jun 24 2010, 05:17 PM'][url="http://shop.ebay.co.uk/musicgroundinc/m.html?_nkw=rockinbetter&_sacat=0&_odkw=&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3911.m270.l1313"]COupla Rockinbetters at Musicground. One is lefty.[/url][/quote]

Now when did Tokai sort out the pickup spacing on these? Thoot looks so much better than mine, which is probably why it's £200 more...:)

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='Dave Vader' post='876646' date='Jun 24 2010, 05:31 PM']Now when did Tokai sort out the pickup spacing on these? Thoot looks so much better than mine, which is probably why it's £200 more...:)[/quote]
I'm sure if Tokai had made them in the first place the pickup spacing - and everything else - would have been spot-on from day one! :rolleyes:

J.

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Dave Vader Proficient

Dave Vader

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If it had been proper classic Tokai, rather than the unfortunate thing is has become. The new korean/chinese made tokais bare no resemblance to the excellent guitars from my youth, although for some reason they do cost as much as the classics go for. :)

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BigRedX Grand Master

BigRedX

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As Bassassin has said, there is zero evidence to support the belief that the Rockinbetter basses are or were ever in any way associated with Tokai.

Tokai have made several copies of Rickenbacker guitars all of which have the usual Tokai logo on the TRC, so if they has at some point made a 4001/4003 copy there no reason the assume that it would have been any different as regards branding.

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The Twickerman Enthusiast

The Twickerman

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[quote name='BigRedX' post='877100' date='Jun 25 2010, 08:40 AM']Tokai have made several copies of Rickenbacker guitars all of which have the usual Tokai logo on the TRC, so if they has at some point made a 4001/4003 copy there no reason the assume that it would have been any different as regards branding.[/quote]

Excepet, perhaps, a new found awareness of the litigious nature of Rickenbacker.

Just a thought.

I share your scepticism. Yet the rumour persists and is quite prevailant.

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='The Twickerman' post='877114' date='Jun 25 2010, 09:03 AM']Excepet, perhaps, a new found awareness of the litigious nature of Rickenbacker.

Just a thought.

I share your scepticism. Yet the rumour persists and is quite prevailant.[/quote]
Thing is, it's not a "rumour" - it's UK dealer listings & Ebay listings & nothing else.

If you do a bit of digging around, "Rockinbetter" is associated with a [url="http://www.jsdguitarshack.com/dillion_guitars/dillion_rockinbetter_bass.html"]Canadian brand called Dillion[/url]. Do a bit more digging and there's a strange association (of sorts) between Dillion & Tokai. It seems the Canadian distributors for Tokai were having trouble obtaining guitars of the spec they needed, so they ordered a bunch of Tokai fakes - copies of copies - through Dillion's supplier.

Tokai geeks call these "Fakai" & I strongly suspect the spurious association between Tokai & whoever buys in these Korean Rick copies & puts a "Rockinbetter" sticker on the trc is derived from little more than the two names appearing in the same Google search result.

As I've pointed out before, Tokai Gakki are no strangers to US trademark protection laws, otherwise you'd still be able to buy a Tokai Les Paul Reborn, rather than a Love Rock.

J.

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='881519' date='Jun 30 2010, 12:08 AM']Another modern one: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Popular-Demand-Tuscany-BIRD-Bass-Guitar-Cherry-/290449847937?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item43a028f681"]Tuscany.[/url][/quote]

Wow. £600 is a lot of money for a shonky-looking bolt-neck with mix 'n' match parts-box hardware.

J.

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tino Enthusiast

tino

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='881548' date='Jun 30 2010, 01:31 AM']Wow. £600 is a lot of money for a shonky-looking bolt-neck with mix 'n' match parts-box hardware.

J.[/quote]
Id rather pay that money for a mid 70's Ibanez.......wouldnt You???? :)

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='tino' post='882205' date='Jun 30 2010, 05:43 PM']Id rather pay that money for a mid 70's Ibanez.......wouldnt You???? :)[/quote]
Not a chance. I wouldn't pay more than £200 for any Rick copy.

J.

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