VT Bass or BDI 21? (straight into a power amp)

[Painy]

I know these are both technically effects pedals but in this case I'm talking about using them as the primary preamp stage (specifically going straight into the power amp in socket on an amp head) which is why I've posted this in here.
Basically, next week I will be buying one or the other of these units to do just that with my old Ampeg as the preamp section is dead but happily the power stage is totally fine. I also tried it with my EHX Bass Metaphors at my gig this weekend and it sounded great - just not very Ampegy.
So I've narrowed it down to these two units but, given that the VT Bass used is around 4 times the price of the BDI21 new, is it just the gear snob in me drawing me to the VT Bass? If it is say 10% better (and I'm guessing the mid control alone could very well account for that much) then for me it justifies the extra cost but I was hoping for some input from anyone who has used both before I jump in.

[discreet]

Yes I've used both and I've used both as 'always-on' preamps into a power amp. Both are good, but for this purpose the VT Bass wins hands-down. It has more output than the BDI and as you suspect, the mid control is worth its weight in gold, particularly if you're using it as a pre - that's the only mid control you're going to get! And as you're also looking for 'that' Ampeg sound, again the VT Bass is the winner here, being (in my opinion) the best Ampeg sim out there. This is definitely a case where you will get more for your money.

Having said that if your budget is restricted, the BDI can be modded to provide a mid control, there are threads about that on this forum. I'm not saying the BDI is a bust at all, it's fantastic in fact, but the VT Bass would be much better for the purpose and sound you have in mind.

Edited September 8, 2015 by discreet

[cheddatom]

I use the BDI21 into a poweramp at the end of my pedalboard. I don't find I lack control over the mids, but then the graphic EQ still works on my amp, despite bypassing the pre-amp. I guess the EQ is right before the power section

Anyway, the BDI21 is great and this gives me yet another excuse to post this [url="https://soundcloud.com/rifffactoryrecordings-1/creepjoint-bass-invader"]https://soundcloud.com/rifffactoryrecordings-1/creepjoint-bass-invader[/url] which is a squier bronco into the BDI21 into the desk

[LewisK1975]

Just another thing to consider - have you tried the Sansamp Para Driver? It's like the Bass driver but has a semi parametric mid control, which I find awesome - I use it at the end of my board into the regular input but the amp (Tecamp PUMA 500, very transparent) is set totally flat, so kind of just functioning as a power amp..

Picked mine up for around £100 s/h - def worth a look I'd say.

I do also own the BDI21 and def missed the ability to control the mids.

[dave_bass5]

One more thing i would consider, is the VTBass DI, as this also has a blend knob on it.

Ive got the BDI-21 and a VTbass (v1) at home at the moment, and they are quite different beasts. Ive also had 2 BDDI's over the past 6 years. Tone wise the BDDI and BDI-21 are very similar, although i actually prefer the cheaper one as its a bit brighter. Ive also had a Paradriver, i got that for the mid control, but didnt keep that long. It was good but not quite the same tone as the BDDI and i preferred that tone.

I have tired the VTbass and BDI-21 together at home and the VTbass sounded so good ive just brought the DI version off someone on here. The blend is very useful IMO, and while the VTBass sounds awesome the DI seems a lot more versatile, plus of course it has the DI out.
Its not cheap of course, but i feel the XLR out and the Blend make it worth the extra over the old version.

Given the choice, the VTBass seems a lot more complete as a pre amp to me, but ill never part with my BDI-21.

[Painy]

Thanks guys. I think I'm gonna take a punt on the VT Bass - as discreet says it is 'that' Ampeg sound I'm looking for (thought you might have some input here Discreet as I've seen you praising both units on various threads before). Might still look to pick up BDI 21 later as a back up though as they do still seem pretty good

[discreet]

Yes, given the price of the BDI-21 and the fact it has a DI out, it's a no-brainer to keep one in your gigbag as back up regardless of what pedal/pre/amp combination you use.

[cheddatom]

Those of you who like a mid control on the BDI21, is this for further scooping? If not, I wonder is there a big difference between turning up the (modded) mid control, and turning down the bass and treble?

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1441725547' post='2861239']
Those of you who like a mid control on the BDI21, is this for further scooping? If not, I wonder is there a big difference between turning up the (modded) mid control, and turning down the bass and treble?
[/quote]


Not for scooping, but for bringing back the lost mid freqs. Tech 21 suggest that yes, turning both bass and treble together gives the effect of raising the mids, although IME thats not the same or as convent as having a dedicated Mid knob.

[M@23]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441724632' post='2861228']
Yes, given the price of the BDI-21 and the fact it has a DI out, it's a no-brainer to keep one in your gigbag as back up regardless of what pedal/pre/amp combination you use.
[/quote]

That's why I bought mine. Also, for gigs with shared (ropey) back line or rehearsal rooms.

[dincz]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1441726804' post='2861253']
Not for scooping, but for bringing back the lost mid freqs. Tech 21 suggest that yes, turning both bass and treble together gives the effect of raising the mids, although IME thats not the same or as convent as having a dedicated Mid knob.
[/quote]

That works but reduces the output level even more. I found the BDI21 could only fully drive my power amp (1.24V sensitivity) with bass boosted.

[cheddatom]

Really? Mine's going into a Peavey combo and the DDT limiter light starts coming on if I have the level knob above half way. I played a gig a few weeks back and the soundman was begging me to turn down the output (for DI). Maybe I have a particularly loud pedalboard

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1441789385' post='2861701']
That works but reduces the output level even more. I found the BDI21 could only fully drive my power amp (1.24V sensitivity) with bass boosted.
[/quote]

Indeed, its not ideal, although ive never boosted the bass on either my BDDI or BDI-21 anyway. Ive always run them with blend on about 10 0'clock, just enough to add some depth and girth (giggady rather than full on emulation.

[Tech21NYC]

Our Bass Driver DI was originally intended for DI use. You would run the SansAmp out to the PA and send the parallel out to your bass rig and use that as you stage sound and the SansAmp for your DI sound. The Bass Driver was meant to get a very specific sound easily without a lot of fuss. People complain about the mid scoop but that has to do with running it into the front end of an amp that already has it's own EQ shape and usually a built in mid scoop. If you want more midrange control and you plan on using the product into your amp vs the mixer we suggest our Para Driver DI which has a sweepable midrange control or our VT Bass products.

Because our SansAmp products are emulating a vintage tube amp in its entirety they tend to work best in front of an amp that is set for a more flat response. You can also use the Blend control to give you more of your amp's inherent tone if desired.

[LewisK1975]

[quote name='Tech21NYC' timestamp='1441807231' post='2861934']
Because our SansAmp products are emulating a vintage tube amp in its entirety they tend to work best in front of an amp that is set for a more flat response. You can also use the Blend control to give you more of your amp's inherent tone if desired.
[/quote]

This is about right for me - my Tecamp PUMA & Barefaced super compact(s) setup yields a very flat response and I run the Para driver into the front of the amp and set all amp controls at 12 o'clock - great sound to my ears!!