drums and working with them.

[Geek99]

hi, can I have your thoughts on this? I did start this topic on the "effects" page but I dont think I expressed the question very well and wanted more people's input/

I usually use a metronome (on my Zoom B2.1u) and I can get on with it farly well, I'm rarely more than half a beat off. I've tried the drum machine on my Zoom (I dont play in a band yet) as I'm aware that things called "Drummers" exist and that most bands have them, but its not proving easy to keep my place in the pattern. Does anyone have any tips for what to listen for and actually keeping tight? Taking the "rock" pattern on the zoom as an example nothing seems to mark out beat one particularly.

thanks

[The Funk]

There's a thread about playing in time in the Theory section. I'd say have a look at that.

Listen for the 1 (where there's naturally a big accent) and the 2 and the 4 (where there's a pair of accents).

There's often a big kick drum on the 1 and a big snare drum on the 2 and the 4.

[BassMunkee]

KICK hat snare hat KICK hat snare hat KICK hat snare hat KICK hat snare hat

[Shaggy]

I play in 2 covers bands; one has an OK drum machine and the other has a seriously good drummer. I find playing with the drummer FAR easier and more natural - night and day difference - but I've no idea why this should be! Part of it down to sheer audibility (is that a proper word?) when live, but certainly not all.

[The Funk]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='267068' date='Aug 21 2008, 02:05 PM'](Mr Funk got there first, but he's counting half as fast as me)[/quote]

Aye. I prefer it that way usually. But I can understand what you mean (and if my 1 and 3 are accented in the same way as each other then it makes more sense to count it the way you are).

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Shaggy' post='267070' date='Aug 21 2008, 02:08 PM']I find playing with the drummer FAR easier and more natural - night and day difference - but I've no idea why this should be![/quote]

Audibility, eye contact, and the ability to compensate for microscopic time changes (a.k.a. 'Feel').

[Lfalex v1.1]

Try watching your drummer play.
Keep an eye on the exact moment that his/her sticks strike the drums' skins. Try to co-ordinate with that as well as the sound. It can help you to "read" what drummer's doing and predict what they may do next.

Works for me.

Don't become too reliant on it live, as you'll end up looking at the drummer all the time and not facing the audience!!

With the Zoom, does the display change in any way as it goes along? Flashing or some other visual means of marking time? If so, try co-ordinating with that...

Edited August 21, 2008 by Lfalex v1.1

[Jase]

You'll be there for ages before you actually get to a point when your in total sync with your Zoom. Maybe place an ad and get with a drummer so you can actually start to get a feel for the whole bass and drums thing.

[The Funk]

If you're waiting to hear the beep or click before you start trying to play the note on your bass, then you'll never be in time.

If you hear four beeps or clicks and then know when the beats are going to beep or click, then you'll be able to play in time.

[lowhand_mike]

tis funny, when we play together we are all in sync, but if we have one of the songs playing through the monitors and our drummer plays along with it he falls out of time. we never have that problem when we all play together, guess its just the compensation thing that wateroftyne mentioned.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='267139' date='Aug 21 2008, 03:35 PM']tis funny, when we play together we are all in sync, but if we have one of the songs playing through the monitors and our drummer plays along with it he falls out of time. we never have that problem when we all play together, guess its just the compensation thing that wateroftyne mentioned.[/quote]

Playing to a click is an art... it's not easy!

Remember, if the drummer's timing is OK, who cares about the click? Jerry Lee Lewis didn't use one.

[Jase]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='267143' date='Aug 21 2008, 02:37 PM']Playing to a click is an art... it's not easy!

Remember, if the drummer's timing is OK, who cares about the click? Jerry Lee Lewis didn't use one. [/quote]

I'd rather not use one,...... don't think I could actually.

[SteveK]

[quote]Remember, if the drummer's timing is OK, who cares about the click? Jerry Lee Lewis didn't use one.[/quote]Indeed!
And a very good friend of mine and band member (Drums) has just finished a solo album. Got some great guests, including: Jeff Beck, Pino Palladino, Paul Jackson, Neil Murray and more...

...and not a click in sight! For anyone interested [url="http://www.jimmycopley.com/"]Samples[/url]

[quote]Does anyone have any tips for what to listen for and actually keeping tight?[/quote]

if you can't hear the hi-hat your stuffed.

Steve

Edited August 21, 2008 by SteveK

[Geek99]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='267126' date='Aug 21 2008, 03:22 PM']Try watching your drummer play.
Keep an eye on the exact moment that his/her sticks strike the drums' skins. Try to co-ordinate with that as well as the sound. It can help you to "read" what drummer's doing and predict what they may do next.

Works for me.

Don't become too reliant on it live, as you'll end up looking at the drummer all the time and not facing the audience!!

With the Zoom, does the display change in any way as it goes along? Flashing or some other visual means of marking time? If so, try co-ordinating with that...[/quote]
I dont have a drummer, that was my point (I would just ask him if I did).

The Zoom does flash an LED on each beat, but I'm never quite sure which is beat 1, which prompted my question. I figure I cant be the only person to wonder this.

[Geek99]

[quote name='The Funk' post='267138' date='Aug 21 2008, 03:35 PM']If you're waiting to hear the beep or click before you start trying to play the note on your bass, then you'll never be in time.

If you hear four beeps or clicks and then know when the beats are going to beep or click, then you'll be able to play in time.[/quote]

I think I can do the clicks, thanks, its the drum sounds that are muddying the water, but I am interested in Jase's idea of an ad - I hadnt considered that.

Edited August 21, 2008 by Geek99

[Jase]

[quote name='Geek99' post='267294' date='Aug 21 2008, 06:15 PM']I think I can do the clicks, thanks, its the drum sounds that are muddying the water, but I am interested in Jase's idea of an ad - I hadnt considered that.[/quote]

Go for it! WoT and others mentioned the visual thing...that's a huge thing for me, also it's a great way to actually start teaching yourself that you HAVE to listen to the players you're working with. Find your own personal groove and feel, you'll know when you hear/feel it. Good luck!