blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1415202253' post='2597836'] I think we're playing the same song here! [/quote] LOL, It's a sensitive topic, however as I said, I don't think those that play for free are talking about providing a band with full production and playing for 4 hours. Blue Edited November 5, 2014 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Four hour gigs are not common over here, we usually play 2 x 1 hour sets plus encores. Pubs have to have music licences for live music and the licence sets a cutoff time when the music must stop, in my experience usually half eleven or midnight. Few places want us to start before nine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilmour Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I really don't like doing pub(bar) gigs. Don't get me wrong I love playing live, it's my favourite thing, and I'm out most weekends. However I find that when you're playing in a pub you can be competing with all sorts of other attention grabbers, I've done gigs where they haven't turned off the football on TV, hell I've done some where they haven't even turned the volume of the TV down! I want to do good gigs, at places with stages, and a light or two pointing at the band, and a decent PA and sound engineer etc. I'll do the pub gigs from time to time but frankly the hassle of dragging a PA there, competing with everything else going on, doing a long show, then packing it all down and getting home late, just isn't worth it for a few free beers and a couple of quid in my pocket. God I sound like a sour old hack but I love playing, I love gigging live, and I also know how much effort everyone else who does this thing puts in and frankly it annoys me to see them being treated second rate at most (but not all) pub venues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1415198578' post='2597760'] That's an interesting angle, and I can totally see how the money could be a measure of worth or success, rather than being important in its own right. A bit like millionaire businessmen still working 60/70 hour weeks to continue to grow their already successful businesses - though I've never understood that either [/quote] Unfortunately, I can't influence how people rank or like the bands they do. so basic things like the quality of gigs you can get, and the money/fees you can achieve are tangible 'endorsements' .. Of course it isn't the whole story..far from it, but hopefully people and their criteria aren't too far from our criteria.. I can bet it isn't the same, but people can still arrive at the same conclusions. If I am not to get the same kudos I damn well will be paid. As it happens, we get paid as much as most in our field... but then again, I think we should since I make a note of knowing the 'opposition' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='gilmour' timestamp='1415203671' post='2597861'] I really don't like doing pub(bar) gigs. Don't get me wrong I love playing live, it's my favourite thing, and I'm out most weekends. However I find that when you're playing in a pub you can be competing with all sorts of other attention grabbers, I've done gigs where they haven't turned off the football on TV, hell I've done some where they haven't even turned the volume of the TV down! I want to do good gigs, at places with stages, and a light or two pointing at the band, and a decent PA and sound engineer etc. I'll do the pub gigs from time to time but frankly the hassle of dragging a PA there, competing with everything else going on, doing a long show, then packing it all down and getting home late, just isn't worth it for a few free beers and a couple of quid in my pocket. God I sound like a sour old hack but I love playing, I love gigging live, and I also know how much effort everyone else who does this thing puts in and frankly it annoys me to see them being treated second rate at most (but not all) pub venues. [/quote] I don't not sympathise with the point of 'other factors' here, but we just wouldn't play a place like that. I totally get that pubs/bars need to make the evening work for them and these are desperate times but I wouldn't be doing any gig where they considered us an afterthought...!! That is why we vet the pub and if we make the mistake (rarely )...then we certainly don't do so again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1415202148' post='2597833'] On this side topic of playing pub/bar/club gigs for free. I'm sure nobody here is bringing a fully rehearsed band, sound and lighting and a crowd to a 4 hour gig free of charge. [/quote] That's a fair point. We usually play up to a 40-50 minute set if we're on with other bands or two 40-ish minute sets (one covers, one originals) if not - it all depends on the gig. We don't often use our full PA either and the last venue we played had their own sound guy as well as the PA and lighting. We couldn't play for four hours without a lot more effort and, frankly, I don't think any of us would want to commit the necessary time. Horses for courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1415190738' post='2597602'] Fair enough, but don't be too surprised if the local roofer refuses to drink with you down the local any more, or worse. [/quote] He'll probably be the guy in the corner drinking on his own then, judging by the popularity of DIY superstores But "or worse" sounds a bit sinister. Next you'll be advocating a closed shop, picket lines and shouting at 'scab' amateurs. Last I heard, there is no monopoly on playing music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1415214986' post='2598044'] He'll probably be the guy in the corner drinking on his own then, judging by the popularity of DIY superstores But "or worse" sounds a bit sinister. Next you'll be advocating a closed shop, picket lines and shouting at 'scab' amateurs. Last I heard, there is no monopoly on playing music. [/quote] I don't think there is a call for 'scab' comments but I do think bands should consider boycotting poor venues and any venue that tries not to pay bands is a poor venue, IMO... Also, if there are bands that continually undercut working bands, then they should run the risk of the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Re bands boycotting poor venues that don't pay, it's never going to happen and the reason for that is in 50% of the previous posts. Lots of people like to play for fun. It's just a hobby for some people and why shouldn't it be? The question is, how good are the bands that do play for nothing? It's possible of course, but unlikely that they'll be exceptionally good and after the landlord has only served drinks to 15 people each night for a couple of months, he'll go back to paid bands that will fill a venue. I have a couple of mates in an Essex covers band that never fail to fill every venue to danger point. Of course they don't play for nothing, they know their worth but so do the landlords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Indeed.... I don't know any bands that regularly play for nothing that are any good..simply because all the good guys can and do get paid and depending how good they are, can name the price they will work for. You simply will not get these guys out for less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1415218357' post='2598087'] Indeed.... I don't know any bands that regularly play for nothing that are any good..simply because all the good guys can and do get paid and depending how good they are, can name the price they will work for. You simply will not get these guys out for less. [/quote] Yes, as many of you have mentioned, most working bar bands with sound and lighting are not competing with guys that play for free. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Here is another side topic on the subject of gigging pubs/bars and clubs. I don't drink, however most of the bars/clubs we play comp the drinks for the band. For some reason I'm thinking this is not happening in the UK? Blue Edited November 5, 2014 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Most LL's will offer a round for the band but most players drive to the gig so they don't go mad anyway. It is not as tho you can say you want food and drink as the gigs don't last long enough so 1 drink each is appreciated. For gigs/parties with food provided, then band will get fed as it normally is accepted that the band has travelled even if the gig is 30 mins away. If you do a good job, most organisers and LL's will buy the band a drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1415201170' post='2597816'] We used to have a guitarist who like to tell us the money didn't matter because he was rich. He still expected his share, so I threw him out. [/quote] This I like. A lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1415201170' post='2597816'] We used to have a guitarist who like to tell us the money didn't matter because he was rich. He still expected his share, so I threw him out. [/quote] Good call, it's that specific kind of guy I take issue with. I wonder what he would have said if after a gig you paid everyone in the band except him. lol Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 He wasn't even a good guitarist, I used to tell him I resented giving him the same share as the other guitarist. It's a much happier band without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1415298616' post='2599004'] He wasn't even a good guitarist, I used to tell him I resented giving him the same share as the other guitarist. It's a much happier band without him. [/quote] Cool, I have heard the Wire Birds. You guys have a good thing going. The concept and the genre are right up my alley. You guys looking for a new bass player? Blue Edited November 6, 2014 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I'll let you know if the job falls vacant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) We used to get free drinks and we were driving too. I'm much more sensibler now! Edited November 10, 2014 by ubit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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