discreet Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1405342939' post='2500960'] Well, yes, and no, because ultimately, one basschatter buying an Aguilar TH350 from Europe (which we are supposed to be proudly part of) makes zero difference to the environment. In fact, it probably means less shipping in trucks/etc. [/quote] It's not just one basschatter buying an Aguilar from Europe though, is it? It's many, many people buying an unimaginable amount of stuff in ever-increasing amounts, faster and faster, all over the planet, hand over fist, quicker than they can earn the money for it. And the joke is, most of it is stuff they don't actually need. A false niche in the market has been created through advertising. An Aguilar amp (or any other item of consumer electronics) takes resources to make and transport to its point of sale, and yet more to transport it to where it'll be used and to power it up over its lifetime. Then it has to be disposed of, using up yet more resources. Resources that cannot be replaced. Multiply this one sale by billions, 24 hours a day without end - and you may begin to understand. And this is just consumer goods. There's also transport, the food industry, agriculture, big pharma, big oil, the military-industrial complex, catastrophe capitalism... on and on it goes. Anyway, this is probably for a different thread. One I'm not going to start - I can just imagine how it would end up. Edited July 14, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) I definitely prefer to support a UK shop, though at the same time do they support my loyalty ? I bought my bass from a shop mentioned below, asked if they'd maybe include a set of strings, only to be told no. I have bought quite a few items from the Gallery, Bass gear and Bass direct, and will again no doubt in the future. I'm just a student though, with a finite amount of funds at my disposal, so I have to shop around and buy from wherever is cheapest. Surely though, if you're a UK retailer, and you see someone selling something that you are, but they're selling it for £100 less than you. It's got to be better to match that price, and maker a smaller profit, than to ignore it and lose sales ? Edited July 14, 2014 by ambient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subbeh Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm awaiting delivery of a new lefty bass from Thomann, of course I tried my local retailers, and several national ones first. None of them stocked it, or were prepared to order one on my behalf, I'd have happily given one of them my business if they were in any way interested. Instead I had no choice but to go with Thomann, who also went back on a recent price increase on this bass in order to make the sale, if my local music shops go, I really won't miss them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1405343378' post='2500977'] Surely though, if you're a UK retailer, and you see someone selling something that you are, but they're selling it for £100 less than you. It's got to be better to match that price, and maker a smaller profit, than to ignore it and lose sales ? [/quote] This works in theory but not in practice unfortunately. Some items are being sold by the big euro guys at virtually zero profit (there's actually some available at below trade price). For a UK dealer to match them and sell without profit, or at very low margin, would simply mean they'd go out of business. The simplest thing for them to do is cut losses, sell off existing stock and de-list the brands. This allows them to reinvest in higher margin products. I've seen this happen before with a net result of significantly reduced availability and even brands disappearing completely in some markets. There is often a knock-on effect at a later date of the prices going back up again, maybe even to a higher price than originally available at, once the competition has been taken out. In fact I've seen this in a few markets and, if you believe all the stories, this was exactly what happened with the availability and price of neodymium a couple of years ago I did wonder whether the massive discounting that we saw on Genz-Benz had something to do with their demise. Even before Fender pulled the plug they were one of the heaviest discounted brands in the market and now they've gone completely. I think Aguilar are generally in a different market to Genz for some products but the TH & SL range is bang in the middle of the price war sector and they've put a lot of store behind these. As mentioned above this level of discounting is good for short term consumer gain and it's all cyclical anyway. If a shop or brand disappears then someone else will fill the gap at some point. However, in our little niche market it may not be of such benefit to the consumer as in other, more commodity based, markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1405343264' post='2500973'] It's not just one basschatter buying an Aguilar from Europe though, is it? It's many, many people buying an unimaginable amount of stuff in ever-increasing amounts, faster and faster, all over the planet, hand over fist, quicker than they can earn the money for it. And the joke is, most of it is stuff they don't actually need. A false niche in the market has been created through advertising. [/quote] No doubt forums don't help...we all buy far too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1405344658' post='2500996'] No doubt forums don't help...we all buy far too much. [/quote] Not for too much longer - when it's gone, it's gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1405344594' post='2500995'] This works in theory but not in practice unfortunately. Some items are being sold by the big euro guys at virtually zero profit (there's actually some available at below trade price). [/quote] I fear the problem may also be that big stores like Thomann can buy 30-40 TH500's no sweat, and this will decrease their trade price. I very much doubt we will know as this is of course a private agreement. I've seen many examples of 'different stores get different discounts'. If UK stores are buying from a supplier, and Thomann aren't, then indeed Thomann won't have to pay the middleman. Who knows! It's very cheap. On the subject of Genz, I suspect from having a look at their history that they peaked, and they moved on. It seems the ex-GB employees are hinting at new products, but again, who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r16ktx Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1405342438' post='2500952'] I'm sure you don't. Nor do I. [/quote] [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1405343264' post='2500973'] And this is just consumer goods. There's also transport, the food industry, agriculture, big pharma, big oil, the military-industrial complex, catastrophe capitalism... on and on it goes [/quote] :-) [quote name='Subbeh' timestamp='1405344431' post='2500993'] I'm awaiting delivery of a new lefty bass from Thomann, of course I tried my local retailers, and several national ones first. None of them stocked it, or were prepared to order one on my behalf, I'd have happily given one of them my business if they were in any way interested. Instead I had no choice but to go with Thomann, who also went back on a recent price increase on this bass in order to make the sale, if my local music shops go, I really won't miss them. [/quote] As it happens I received my new bass from Thmann in-between my last post and this. A bass model that I had found second hand at a UK store via ebay, to be promptly informed that they had sold it already. The listing had been added _after_ they said they had sold it. So I bought it new from Thomann being the only place that seemed to supply that particular model - also I emailed an enquiry about another bass to a very well known UK bass store - still waiting for a reply. I emailed the enquiry to the manufacturer in the US and received a reply within 48 hours both answering my question and offering further help from the VP of that company. So why is it that UK stores are going to the wall?... [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1405344658' post='2500996'] No doubt forums don't help...we all buy far too much. [/quote] Are you telling me I buy too much? What else would I do with the money I work hard for? Work less hard or give it away? Capitalism is often confused or conflated with Consumerism. In order to have a conversation about the merits or not of any idea, or concept, there first has to be at least a consensus on the definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Certainly not, you have to enjoy yourself! I'm probably just as bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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