Eric Clapton - Live In Leeds (22/06/2014)

[Coilte]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1403541974' post='2483743']
His remarks were about keeping Britain white, which is not in conflict with his apparent love of black music & musicians or even Mandela . . . . just as long as they don't want to live here presumably, so not really hypocritical from his perspective.
[/quote]

I accept your point. However, I always cringe when I see "happy/clappy/smiley" photos of him in various books and magazines, alongside famous bluesmen. Wonder if they'd be as happy if they knew of his sentiments ?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1403543689' post='2483762']
Wonder if they'd be as happy if they knew of his sentiments ?
[/quote]

I'm sure they are aware of it - the event concerned isn't exactly hidden under a rug.

[Coilte]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1403543788' post='2483764']
I'm sure they are aware of it - the event concerned isn't exactly hidden under a rug.
[/quote]

Perhaps they are aware of it but are prepared to accept it, giving that Clapton along with other English artists helped to bring blues to a larger (white audience). It still does not reduce the cringe factor though.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Coilte

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1403544101' post='2483766']
Perhaps they are aware of it but are prepared to accept it, giving that Clapton along with other English artists helped to bring blues to a larger (white audience). It still does not reduce the cringe factor though.
[/quote]

I doubt Willie Weeks,and Nathan East are short of a gig, but they seem to be happy to play with him.

[Coilte]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1403544827' post='2483775']
I doubt Willie Weeks,and Nathan East are short of a gig, but they seem to be happy to play with him.
[/quote]

True. If they are happy to play with him..that's their call. Does not change much though.

All this still does not get away from the sheer [i]un[/i]professionalism (getting back on topic) of the man that is Eric Clapton. Most "old pros" would not treat an audience the way he did in the OP's post. Also, most pros would not come out with his public utterences in '76...no matter what his own private views were, or what "influence" he was under.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1403544101' post='2483766']
Perhaps they are aware of it but are prepared to accept it, giving that Clapton along with other English artists helped to bring blues to a larger (white audience). It still does not reduce the cringe factor though.
[/quote]

Yes it was pretty distasteful, but perhaps they're prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt on the grounds that people with an alcohol problem often say things in ways that they wouldn't if they were sober. And let's not forget that in the light of the recent European elections it would appear that stronger immigration control seems to be trending atm (which I hasten to add that I have no truck with).

You seem keen (along with the blog poster you linked to) to hold him to account for all eternity for something he said in a drunken stupor nearly 40 years ago, when most of the people he knows on a professional level appear happy to work with him. You also appear keen to demonise him for something he has done once in who knows how many concerts over the years (whose precise circumstances we actually still don't know in any sort of detail), and for which he has issued a public apology. My guess is that you at least are not prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. If so then so be it. If not then perhaps we should all move on...

Edited June 23, 2014 by leftybassman392

[blamelouis]

If you read his autobiography, he was completely pissed/stoned for 20 odd years and far from a happy drunk.
We all do/say stupid things and I'm not in a position to judge any other human being.
Not fussed on his music but he has achieved quite a lot.

[peteb]

I’m not a admirer(more of a Jeff Beck man myself) but a few of my mates who are very good guitar players are massive fans. A couple of them went to see him at Leeds last night and the impression I get from various FB posts is that they were not overly impressed!

I read the autobiography and he does come across as a bit of a strange fish. Another friend met him after a London gig when he was about 15 and just started playing guitar (this would have been just after the alcohol years). Clapton was his big hero but he said that EC was just rude and very ungracious! Another case of it often being better to never meet your heroes…

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1403546806' post='2483789']
All this still does not get away from the sheer [i]un[/i]professionalism (getting back on topic) of the man that is Eric Clapton. Most "old pros" would not treat an audience the way he did in the OP's post. [/quote]

Agreed. Though he's not alone in that respect. I recall Dylan being pretty offhand when I saw him at Wembley Arena many years ago (late 80s).

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1403549473' post='2483829']
Agreed. Though he's not alone in that respect. I recall Dylan being pretty offhand when I saw him at Wembley Arena many years ago (late 80s).
[/quote]

Saw Dylan at the NEC many years ago - he completely ignored the audience, and had become a parody of himself. Worst concert I've been to I think.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1403548877' post='2483822']
If you read his autobiography, he was completely pissed/stoned for 20 odd years and far from a happy drunk.
[/quote]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1403549132' post='2483826']
I read the autobiography and he does come across as a bit of a strange fish. Another friend met him after a London gig when he was about 15 and just started playing guitar (this would have been just after the alcohol years). Clapton was his big hero but he said that EC was just rude and very ungracious! Another case of it often being better to never meet your heroes…
[/quote]

I've also read his autobiography and didn't really warm to the guy the more I found out about him. I can't remember any specific stories now, but he came across as a bit of a jerk really and it certainly didn't leave a good impression with me . . . well, except that he enjoys fly-fishing, of course!

[Dr.Dave]

Thing is - Clapton is not god , he's just a man. Men are well capable of abusive rants when pissed and stoned and often too proud or embarrassed to retract them. Men are capable of changing artistic direction , capable of becoming more commercial , capable of appearing - or actually being - disinterested in their audience - many things. Capable of being rich and successful and continuing to entertain millions for several decades for instance. Bottom line in this case is that some men can command a £60 plus ticket price and fill an arena - while others are free to choose whether or not they want to pay that to enrich the life of someone with views or an attitude they find offensive. So far as I know Eric shot off a load of well publicised racist vitriol while out of his tree at one gig many years ago which many still demonise him for , though I don't recall his life in the public eye being noted for controversy apart from that incident. Meanwhile - how many stars with repeated extreme left wing or anarchistic views are still urging us to smash the state while living in country houses and counting the millions that very society made possible for them - not to mention the millions more stashed in the Cayman Islands.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1403593676' post='2484123']
Thing is - Clapton is not god , he's just a man. Men are well capable of abusive rants when pissed and stoned and often too proud or embarrassed to retract them. Men are capable of changing artistic direction , capable of becoming more commercial , capable of appearing - or actually being - disinterested in their audience - many things. Capable of being rich and successful and continuing to entertain millions for several decades for instance. Bottom line in this case is that some men can command a £60 plus ticket price and fill an arena - while others are free to choose whether or not they want to pay that to enrich the life of someone with views or an attitude they find offensive. So far as I know Eric shot off a load of well publicised racist vitriol while out of his tree at one gig many years ago which many still demonise him for , though I don't recall his life in the public eye being noted for controversy apart from that incident. Meanwhile - how many stars with repeated extreme left wing or anarchistic views are still urging us to smash the state while living in country houses and counting the millions that very society made possible for them - not to mention the millions more stashed in the Cayman Islands.
[/quote]

This. ^

My point entirely!

If you don't like him or don't rate him then that's fine. To continue to berate him for things that happened half a (long) lifetime ago starts to look, well, a bit petty TBH. Hands up everyone who's never in their life done anything they're ashamed of or would have done differently given another go....

[UglyDog]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1403594613' post='2484132']
Hands up everyone who's never in their life done anything they're ashamed of or would have done differently given another go....
[/quote]
True. But I'd like to think that, given the opportunity to set the record straight, I'd put my hands up and admit that I'd been an absolute bellend and that I bitterly regretted what I'd said/done, that I wasn't in control at the time but that's really no excuse, and that I was truly sorry to anyone I had disappointed, disillusioned or personally offended. If I didn't do any of that, it would tend to suggest that I thought I was right to say/do it in the first place, or that I was too arrogant to admit that I have feet of clay like every other bugger.

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1403610388' post='2484384']
True. But I'd like to think that, given the opportunity to set the record straight, I'd put my hands up and admit that I'd been an absolute bellend and that I bitterly regretted what I'd said/done, that I wasn't in control at the time but that's really no excuse, and that I was truly sorry to anyone I had disappointed, disillusioned or personally offended. If I didn't do any of that, it would tend to suggest that I thought I was right to say/do it in the first place, or that I was too arrogant to admit that I have feet of clay like every other bugger.
[/quote]

Can I quote you on that? Oh no wait...

Seriously, if you're waiting for him to get anywhere close to saying something like that I fear you may have a long wait. I don't doubt he does regret it (and given the opportunity again I don't doubt a sober Eric Clapton would choose to express himself somewhat differently), but after this long I can't see it happening - it's even possible that this far down the road he feels that he's being hounded by people who can't or won't let it go. I mean it's not as if he committed a serious crime (and in matters of moral judgement - which is what this is - I'm always wary of using today's standards to judge events that took place nearly 40 years ago; the world was a different place). I'm not defending him - not at all - but I wonder if we shouldn't move on.

Anyhoo, I've said what I came to say so if you'll excuse me I'll be on my way...

Edited June 24, 2014 by leftybassman392

[MetricMike]

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1403617790' post='2484547']
..................... I don't doubt he does regret it (and given the opportunity again I don't doubt a sober Eric Clapton would choose to express himself somewhat differently), but after this long I can't see it happening .............................. I mean it's not as if he committed a serious crime (and in matters of moral judgement - which is what this is - I'm always wary of using today's standards to judge events that took place nearly 40 years ago; the world was a different place)
[/quote]

He did not appear to regret his comments when asked about them in 2004 (interview with Uncut) and 2007 (South Bank Show). On both occasions he re-itereated his support for Powell, although bizarrely claimed Powel was not racist!
At the time it was not a crime, today I believe the crime would be "Inciting racial hatred", oh and by the way if you were not around at the time Powell managed to incite an awful lot of racial hatred, intimidation and violence.

We all make mistakes due to youthful bravado, drink etc., but most of us apologise and try and make amends, we do not try and justify it decades later.

[blamelouis]

Oh dear .....!


Gary Oldman has seemingly defended Mel Gibson over his 2006 anti-Semitic remarks, and says we should “take a f**king joke" and "get over it”.

“Mel Gibson is in a town that’s run by Jews and he said the wrong thing because he’s actually bitten the hand that I guess has fed him - and doesn’t need to feed him anymore because he’s got enough dough,” he continued.

“He’s like an outcast, a leper, you know?

“But some Jewish guy in his office somewhere hasn’t turned and said, ‘That f***ing kraut’ or ‘F**k those Germans,’ whatever it is? We all hide and try to be so politically correct. That's what gets me.”


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/gary-oldman-defends-mel-gibsons-antisemitic-remarks-we-all-hide-and-try-to-be-so-politically-correct-9557435.html

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='MetricMike' timestamp='1403620926' post='2484605']

if you were not around at the time Powell managed to incite an awful lot of racial hatred, intimidation and violence.

[/quote]

Well it's flattering that you think of me as that young, but I'm 61 so I was! I recall the furore at the time (although I was 'otherwise occupied' during the early and mid '70's so had not actually heard about the Clapton incident - along with a bunch of other stuff I don't doubt - until I read it on this thread).

This really will be my last contribution on this thing, but you're now I think the third or fourth poster that has said words to the effect of "well if it was me I'd apologise profusely, fall on my bended knees and beg forgiveness of anybody anywhere that I might have offended.... etc.".

Fact is, it isn't you and it isn't any of the other posters expressing similar sentiments. Fact is, the man is flawed: he has an offhand manner with his audiences and a dark side to his personality. He's not the first or the only ( names like Dylan and Gallagher spring to mind...); and he certainly won't be the last. If you don't like him, why not just say so and be done?

Edited June 24, 2014 by leftybassman392