How to monitor myself when playing without PA support?

[BassYerbouti]

As I get older and deafer I am finding it harder to hear myself above the drums and wall of sound our band puts out when rehearsing or playing gigs without monitors. I've seen singers and musicians with those in ear devices that I imagine they are using instead of the wedges I am more used to. Does anyone use these or similar to somehow monitor their own rig, maybe using the DI Out on their amps or have any other advice on getting to hear yourself without turning up your rig and drowning everyone else out?

[Roger2611]

Best advice I can offer is to get you amp high enough or tilted so it is pointing at your ears rather than your ankles, ears work much better than ankles for picking up sounds

[JTUK]

I am never a fan of getting amps into your ears etc etc ...as that doesn't help a self mix
on the whole. Just because you can hear the bass as it is right by your ear doesn't mean
anyone else in the audience will. It doesn't neccessarily work, IMO
Far better to get the band mix good so you can all hear each other and then assume that spread
will get into the venue...
And to get a band mix right you will know in rehearsals and other gigs where the problem lies..and if not
start from bass/drums and get that balance... add in other instruments one by one and see who blows it.
Sometimes... read very often, a gtr will obliterate the bass on a doubling pattern of straight 8's so then
the culprit is the gtr. Too much boom bass isn't helpful either.... you want to layer the sounds not present
a wall of sound as then only the strongest/loudish/most peaky gets through...
Then, make sure the vox are RIGHT over the top of the band.

[Monckyman]

You can of course monitor your own amp through in ears.
Cheapest way is a small 2 to 4 chan micro desk,stick it on top of your rig,feed an input on that from your d.i out, headphone extension to your in ears.
If you have a spare aux out on your main desk, you can send the mix that was going to your wedge to the other chan on the mini desk,and mix between them till you're happy.

[Mornats]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1401478195' post='2464106']
Cheapest way is a small 2 to 4 chan micro desk,stick it on top of your rig,feed an input on that from your d.i out, headphone extension to your in ears.
[/quote]

I have trouble when we play smaller gigs and open mic nights. The guitar will go through the PA as will the singer, my bass is either in the PA mix or I can take my Markbass (depending on the venue). I have terrible trouble hearing the guitar as I'm stood behind the PA speakers so it's hard to lock in, especially without drums.

So this sounds like a great solution for me. Or, I could simply take a headphone monitor and plug it straight into the desk. Any recommendations for headphone monitors for this? I guess wireless would be a lot more versatile than being hooked up to the desk.

[Monckyman]

Hiya, yes you could take a mix (best option as you can get a little kit and guit and vox etc in there as well),from an aux out on the desk or if its just your bass you want, you could take a direct out from your amp/d.i or with a modified cable, use the insert point if your desk has one, loads of options.
The wired option is the cheapest, maybe a way to see if you get on with in ears but there are some cheap radio units about now so..
There are a few more cheaper wireless options about nowadays, Thommann do a unit, as does LD, which are similar in spec and price, for about £150
This one>http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_iem_75.htm#bewertung is as cheap as it gets and does 3 frequencies do you could use three sets in a band.

This one >http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_iem_100_863_mhz.htm can be mono or stereo and has more frequencies etc.

Its worth a punt on the first set I linked as Thommann have a 30 day no quibble money back deal so you get a month to try them out, if you no like, you no buy.
Even selling them on should get you £50 back so no great risk.
The actual headphones are likely to be of poor quality so don't judge the set on them, try to borrow some better quality phones to test it out.
The cheaper sennheiser range can get you a pretty good sound if you get a good seal, especially if you upgrade to better foam tips.
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sennheiser-CX-300-II-NEW-SEALED-Precision-In-Ear-only-Headphones-Black-/111347959948?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item19ecdb088c"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item19ecdb088c[/url]

Hope this helps!

Edited May 31, 2014 by Monckyman

[Happy Jack]

In-ears can be a bloody nuisance though (depends on the band, the gig, and the musician) and wearing any form of headphones on stage just looks weird.

I use this:

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/pa-live/detail.asp?stock=11060815213512

Stick it on a mic-stand in front of you (even if you don't sing).

Plug your bass into the WPM1 and then run your lead from the WPM1 to your rig.

You WON'T hear the sound of your bass rig, but you'll certainly hear what you're playing!

You can also take a feed from the PA and run it into the WPM1 if you need a mix.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 19, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Monckyman]

As above, in an ideal world thats how to do it.
But most of the gigs we do aren't in an ideal world with sympathetic band members and a decent stage.
My lot use an E kit,and while it isn't a Ludwig, I just couldn't bear the thought of having to stand half a metre from real cymbals being thraped by an over keen drummer.
Even a drummer who is doing his best to cool it will generate a massive amount of top end noise and that's unacceptable to me and my ears.
So, in ears offer a very versatile and good quality way of gigging a lot while retaining your hearing.
There's a reason all the top touring bands use them.

[Mornats]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1401534940' post='2464490']
Hope this helps!
[/quote]

Yes it did, cheers!

I also like the idea of the mic stand monitor too. I've seen those online and was tempted to try one.

If I went with the in-ear option I'd consider a pair of these: http://www.thomann.de/gb/shure_se215k.htm. I'd use them for general music listening too although probably not on the walk to work as they're noise-isolating ones. They were originally developed as on stage monitoring headphones too so are ideal.

[Monckyman]

Yep the se215s are popular and fairly cheap.
Remember the mic stand mounted wedge won't deal with your drummers sizzle!

[Mornats]

We mostly play without a drummer so that should be fine. If we do have a drummer I can just lock onto the hi-hat that's being smashed next to my right ear and hope everyone else keeps up with us two.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1401547245' post='2464624']
Remember the mic stand mounted wedge won't deal with your drummers sizzle!
[/quote]

Troo dat.

[BassYerbouti]

Cheers guys - lots of good ideas here for me to try out. thank you

[BassYerbouti]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1401537873' post='2464520']
Actually, frontward band mix aside, earplugs can help a lot.

The foam ones can really kill what you hear, but a reasonable set of musicians plug tend to attenuate a bit more of the highs than anything else, and of course leave the sound you are 'feeling' through the rest of your body. The overall effect, aside from reducing the volume battering your ears, is that the high end wash of guitars and cymbals is reduced, leaving a more perceptible mid and low end. It makes the bass seem higher in the mix, while in fact you are reducing the masking frequencies, and leaving the actual SPL in the room the same.

Works for ol' cloth ears, over here, anyway!

The real solution is in JTUK's post- a band playing correctly should be well balanced, keep out of each others frequency ranges, and shouldn't be too loud. If you can address the 'natural mix' of the band, then that will benefit not only you, but the rest of the players, and anyone who listens to you, too. Of course it can be quite a contentious conversation to have, depending on the personalities involved, but it does address the root cause.
[/quote] tried the whole rehearsal with earplugs in last night and was pleasantly surprised. Although I didn't feel as 'involved' with the songs, my timing was better and could hear myself clearly without all the 'pain' of an enthusiastic drummer and lead guitar trying to outdo each other.

[Monckyman]

So, imagine what the ACS plugs with proper valves in would do for you.
Quieter, but with all the frequencies still there.

[Muzz]

Yep, I've got ACS plugs and the T15 drivers in (only single drivers, but good enough for my wrecked old ears), I use a MyMonitor mixer/amp to monitor myself and get a line back from the desk to hear everyone else. Very good, as I can mix a bit more of 'me' in when/if I need it. A double lead from OBBM means I haven't had to go to the mither and expense of wireless IEMs (we had two LD systems go bang at a gig the other week).