Sarah5string Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Potentially have a gig coming up on the 30th August and have been debating this with drummy.... what do you guys think? Is it better to have the bass through the PA or an onstage amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Both. An amp onstage so that you can hear yourself and through the PA so the audience can hear you. It all depends on the size of venue though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Yeh, both, your amp is for you, the PA is for the public! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Amp only if your PA is just simple tops on sticks. Amp plus PA if it has subs (and then try to keep the stage volume lower to reduce sonic clashes between bass amp and PA subs). Don't expect to get much useful bass through the monitors unless they're so big you can barely lift them. If you're not putting the bass through the PA I recommend not miking the drums and getting the drummer to use a less damped kick drum so it can be heard out front. Our drummer is fortunate to have two kits and he uses the big Vistalite one with barely damped 26" kick when we have a minimalist PA. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbass Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Depends on the size of venue, and the quality of both amp & PA ! I only use PA these days, but you have to make sure that there's enough foldback for you all to be able to hear the bass. Also if the foldback are only 10" or 12" drivers then you might hit problems... they aren't built like bass cabs generally. One thing to remember about cabs vs. PA is that its not all about wattage, its about dispersal... Basically PA's are designed to 'throw' the sound throughout a room. If your guitars/keyboards are all going through the PA and you're the only person left with a regular amp then their sound is going to project much further (and they will start to bleat as you turn up on stage to compensate!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='coasterbass' post='240937' date='Jul 16 2008, 03:17 PM']One thing to remember about cabs vs. PA is that its not all about wattage, its about dispersal...Basically PA's are designed to 'throw' the sound throughout a room.[/quote] There is no such thing as 'throw'. Well designed PA cabs should have better off-axis response than a typical guitar or bass cab and obviously they're in front of the stage so output from them won't sound as loud onstage as output from an onstage amp that's having to fill the room with sound. However if the PA doesn't have subs then it is highly unlikely to be able to handle the bass or the kick drum without a huge increase in distortion which will make the vocals sound nasty. The best advice I can give when minimally PA'd is to experiment with cab positioning to try and use the acoustics in your favour. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Both. Your amp/cab should basically be an onstage monitor for you and the band. I often soundcheck with the master volume on my amp switched off to check the PA sounds good out front - I then bring up my amp's volume so I can just hear myself when the guitar and drums are playing. This also helps me hear my backing vocals properly because the onstage levels aren't ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='Sarah5string' post='240921' date='Jul 16 2008, 03:05 PM']....have a gig coming up on the 30th August and have been debating this with drummy.... what do you guys think? Is it better to have the bass through the PA or an onstage amp?....[/quote] Have you seen any band live or on TV, Glastonbury, Jools Holland etc, going through the PA only? No you haven't, they all use a backline. You have to have a constant sound when you are playing. If you are lucky enough to carry your own PA and sound man then debate the "no amp" thing, until then always take your amp and DI it if you can. Don't let techno-babble confuse you. I'm assuming that you’re not playing 5 gigs a week in front of 1000's of people? You have to be at a different level before you have to worry about any of that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah5string Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 Thanks guys.. I've not gigged before so all this is new to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='Sarah5string' post='240994' date='Jul 16 2008, 03:55 PM']....I've not gigged before so all this is new to me....[/quote] No problem. Take it slowly. I assume you've rehearsed a lot? That is the set up you should take on stage with you. You have to feel comfortable and there are enough things waiting to throw you off course (like remembering all the numbers, getting out of the hole when someone goes into a chorus instead of a verse or a number gets counted in at the wrong speed) without messing up your sound as well. Good luck, it'll be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Take your backline amp along anyway. You need to be able to hear yourself on stage so that backline must be there for that purpose, if nothing else. If, has been said before, the PA is up to the job of handling the drums and bass, and you have someone in charge of it who knows what they are doing, then it's generally better to use the PA for the sound the audience hear and your amp for what you hear on stage. For a first gig that's probably enough to think about. As you do more gigs you might want to experiment with the available options but that should come later. Just make sure you enjoy the gig ! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Sarah5string' post='240994' date='Jul 16 2008, 03:55 PM']Thanks guys.. I've not gigged before so all this is new to me... [/quote] Ahhh cool, good luck with your first gig! I can't say much apart from what everyone else said. If it's a small gig, amp only, if it's a larger gig, amp and PA so the audience can hear you better, never just PA because you won't be able to hear yourself. Also before the gig mess about with DI'ing your amp or micing it up because they will sound totally different, and if you do mic it up, some good mics to use would be a shure SM57, though they don't have a great low range response, or a beyerdynamic M88 or AKG D112, both are kick drum mics i believe, or at least the latter is and they both have good low range response, but the M88 has better definition than the D112, it's up to you, assuming you can afford it! As i say, kick drum mics are usually pretty good for bass. Also if you use a mic, mess about with the positioning of the mic, try the middle of the speaker cone (more treble), the outside of the speaker cone (more bassy, i think it's that way round anyway), somewhere in between, or if you have an air hole in the back of your amp, try micing it up from the back, you'd be surprised by the results! Of course it might all sound the same in the mix Edited July 16, 2008 by budget bassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I suppose it depends on what sort of sound and effects you like to use. My set up is very simple and I use the bass controls to adjust tone and frequencies. If you have loads of effect changes and what have you, maybe an amp is fairly mandatory. I [u]always [/u]go through the PA. I very rarely use an amp, only if one is provided at the venue and even then I use it purely for monitoring where I'll run a dry parallel to it from my own DI box. I have a Hartke VXL preamp DI and have just ordered a Sansamp Para Driver DI for the same purpose. I use the wedges for monitoring if not using an amp. If I do use an amp as well, I have it at comparatively low volume and wind off the high frequencies. I'll use it for more low end to broaden the stage sound, for the "feel" factor. Sometimes I face it across the stage rather than out front. In big venues and festivals I find their wedges are perfectly adequate for monitoring bass but they often have backline anyway. I always wanted a big stage sound in the past, like you expect at a rehearsal, where you feel like you're inside the music and get a massive buzz from it. In reality (unless you're Motörhead or RUSH), on most stages you'll rarely get that and have to compromise a lot for the sound guy/PA and the audience. The audience get the proper sound and the band get what they get. But you get used to it and you get the buzz anyway. In ear monitoring is probably the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Meant to say very best of luck, Sarah! Don't even worry about what the sound guy does, certainly not about the mic or DI argument, that's out of your hands. Just make sure you can hear yourself and the rest of the band and you'll be fine. Maybe take a combo with you to be on the safe side. What sort of venue is it? Are you nervous? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I'd say the best sound that we've ever achieved was backline only with a vocals/kick only PA (bit like the one in my sig) but this just won't cut it for bigger venues. So I usually go through the PA and use my lovely amp as a stage monitor. Our lead guitar has taken to not taking his amp to some gigs at all. He just fires his gt8 straight through the PA which although might sound good out front leaves us only able to hear him from whatever POS monitors the venue uses. We take a lot of cues from him and it can be pretty tough listening out for an undefined, dynamic-less, hi-pass sound buried somewhere in our onstage cacophony. Good Luck with the gig like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah5string Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='silddx' post='241028' date='Jul 16 2008, 04:22 PM']Meant to say very best of luck, Sarah! Don't even worry about what the sound guy does, certainly not about the mic or DI argument, that's out of your hands. Just make sure you can hear yourself and the rest of the band and you'll be fine. Maybe take a combo with you to be on the safe side. What sort of venue is it? Are you nervous? Cheers![/quote] The venue is a rock pub with stage, 200 capacity apparently. I say we're 'supposed' to be doing it as although we've agreed with the venue the guitarists want to see where we are in 2 more practices and then decide 100%. Although we've sorted a list of songs and are practicing them and getting backing vocals sorted, as well as planning to take all our own amps to practice one week so I really can't see any reason why they'd want us to pull out. It's 1/2 hr and 2nd in on a 4 band bill and we're doing a mix of originals and covers. Personally I'm really excited I've always wanted to gig and not had a chance to get nervous yet..although I'm sure I will if they agree to go ahead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='Sarah5string' post='241075' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:01 PM']The venue is a rock pub with stage, 200 capacity apparently. I say we're 'supposed' to be doing it as although we've agreed with the venue the guitarists want to see where we are in 2 more practices and then decide 100%. Although we've sorted a list of songs and are practicing them and getting backing vocals sorted, as well as planning to take all our own amps to practice one week so I really can't see any reason why they'd want us to pull out. It's 1/2 hr and 2nd in on a 4 band bill and we're doing a mix of originals and covers. Personally I'm really excited I've always wanted to gig and not had a chance to get nervous yet..although I'm sure I will if they agree to go ahead![/quote] Cool! I think if it's your first gig, you'll feel better with an amp of some sort. It may be the case that the venue will only allow the headline and 2nd headline to use their own backline, it's quite common in some London venues with small stages. I would confirm that with the venue well before the gig. You might be able to use one of the other band's bass amps, if you seek out the bass players on the day, ask nicely, buy them a pint and promise them you won't fiddle with their eq they'll often let you use theirs. Certainly worked for me when I played those types of venue, although the odd tosser refused of course. If you do get a bit nervous before you go on, find a quiet place, and do the 7/11 breathing technique for a minute or two, in through the nose for a count of 7 and out through the mouth for a count of 11, or thereabouts. As long as the exhale is a few seconds longer than the inhale, you'll trick you brain into suppressing the fight or flight response. Have a great one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah5string Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='silddx' post='241085' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:19 PM']Cool! I think if it's your first gig, you'll feel better with an amp of some sort. It may be the case that the venue will only allow the headline and 2nd headline to use their own backline, it's quite common in some London venues with small stages. I would confirm that with the venue well before the gig. You might be able to use one of the other band's bass amps, if you seek out the bass players on the day, ask nicely, buy them a pint and promise them you won't fiddle with their eq they'll often let you use theirs. Certainly worked for me when I played those types of venue, although the odd tosser refused of course. If you do get a bit nervous before you go on, find a quiet place, and do the 7/11 breathing technique for a minute or two, in through the nose for a count of 7 and out through the mouth for a count of 11, or thereabouts. As long as the exhale is a few seconds longer than the inhale, you'll trick you brain into suppressing the fight or flight response. Have a great one![/quote] Well the venue have said for everyone to bring amps so I'm presuming that includes me! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) [quote name='silddx' post='241085' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:19 PM']If you do get a bit nervous before you go on, find a quiet place, and do the 7/11 breathing technique for a minute or two, in through the nose for a count of 7 and out through the mouth for a count of 11, or thereabouts. As long as the exhale is a few seconds longer than the inhale, you'll trick you brain into suppressing the fight or flight response.[/quote] Bollocks to that - a couple of bottles of Guiness on my first gig Good luck with the gig. It might be an idea to go and see other bands at the venue to check it out like. Edited July 16, 2008 by bass_ferret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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