groovastic Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Hi! This is my first post, and I have a question that might sound funny... I've been thinking for some time now, and cannot find the answer. Why does Celinder J bass sound different to say Sadowsky J bass or to Sandberg or Pensa or Shuker J basses if they all have, for example, '70's pick up locations? Let's imagine they are all made of the same woods. They do have different pickups and preamps perhaps, but is that the only reason for them to sound different?!? Would you be able to hear the difference if you put the same electronics in all of them? What is in fact the difference between those basses except for electronics? Is it the shape of the neck that defines a different sound from bass to bass? Or slight variations in body shape from one manufacturer to an other? Different neck joint? Quality of say alder in one of them vs. quality of alder in the other? Nut material? I really can't think of anything that would explain why they sound different to each other! Sorry if this is something everybody already knows or if it's been answered already, but it's been bugging me for months! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) I reckon if you put the same electronics / pickups in a Fender and a Sadowsky they would sound pretty similar... In fact if you put them in a encore it probably wouldn't be too far off...obviously sound is only one aspect of an instrument though, the look and playability would be very different between manufactures and they are just as important. Edited April 14, 2014 by CamdenRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If you can find multiple examples of a mass manufactured instrument at one store with the same spec(excluding finish colours), they will not all sound identical(but they will be similar) if you play them back to back - electrical components have manufacturing tolerances which means that for a given rating for a tone capacitor or volume pot for instance, some will be higher and some lower than the nominal value, which will change the frequency content of the sound, and wood is pretty variable in terms of it's physical characteristics from one piece to another, adding in more variation to frequencies that get sympathetically boosted/cut by the vibration of the neck and body when the strings are plucked. As soon as you look at custom builds, all bets are off, because even though lots of makers make "super jazz" type bases, they don't construct with identical methods and specs, and I wouldn't expect two instruments coming out of the same luthiers doors to sound identical tbh - many high profile players get given multiple custom shop instruments(which are somewhat close to hand made and supposed to be identical in spec) for touring as part of their endorsement deals, and they invariably have a favourite that has number 1 status, with a bunch of clones for backup. Also in many cases this applies to amps as well, as they are choc full of components with variable tolerances that can make an individual amp sound better or worse than the next one off the production line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think the most important thing to the sound of the bass/instrument is how well the core components react/resonate together. This is why cheaper basses don't tend to work as well. Most Luthiers will spend some time testing combinations and getting good wood sources. Sure, cheaper constructions can get lucky but the odds are more against, IMO. Things like fit and build become key... and then you dress that up with decent pickups/circuits etc etc. Having said that, there is no absolute garauntee, IMO, and it always bemuses me when someone reviews one bass and then assumes/implies that is the standard of all of them, particuarly with regard to sound You'll find most luthiers use active electronics to legislate a degree of consistancy as well. Again, IMO. You can use the term 'vintage' as a pointer and 'modern' and then you are into a world of degrees on those defintions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 All Jazz basses sound different to me, even identical models. The differences may not be obvious at first, but they become more apparent over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groovastic Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Thank you all for your answers! So if we are talking about all these finesses, SubsonicSimpleton, I still think there would be as much difference between 2 J basses from the same manufacturer as there would be from 2 different manufacturers. Isn't it so? And JTUK, I agree that making all the parts working good together is what is important, but is that the reason why J basses from different luthiers sound differently? Is it because Celinder likes using alder wood blanks that sound like "ding" when you knock on them, and Sadowsky uses the ones that sound like "dong"? Is all the difference coming from different taste in wood block's sound at different luthiers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raslee Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1397491443' post='2424436'] All Jazz basses sound different to me, even identical models. The differences may not be obvious at first, but they become more apparent over time. [/quote] Definitely this +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) They all sound crap when I play them, so I stick to big fat basses [see list below]. I'm not knocking Jazz basses, in fact I'd love to find one that worked for me, but we just don't get on Edited April 14, 2014 by JapanAxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Different woods, electronics, pick ups, strings, finishes, neck radius, hardware, fret wire and construction techniques. It all adds up to a slightly different sounding bass. In a blind listening test they will all sound like jazz basses. In terms of looks, feel and playability an individual player will probably notice more of a difference. The small differences can end up determining which variant of the jazz bass model a player likes the best. Generally it comes down to 'play the one you like the most'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I've played near identical Fender Jazzes (same year of manufacture, exact same model etc) back to back and even they sound different. I know a top pro guy who bought a brand new 2013 Fender P US Standard and asked Fender for another that sounded the same so he'd have a spare to take on tour. They couldn't find one. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 [quote name='groovastic' timestamp='1397500845' post='2424575'] Thank you all for your answers! So if we are talking about all these finesses, SubsonicSimpleton, I still think there would be as much difference between 2 J basses from the same manufacturer as there would be from 2 different manufacturers. Isn't it so? And JTUK, I agree that making all the parts working good together is what is important, but is that the reason why J basses from different luthiers sound differently? Is it because Celinder likes using alder wood blanks that sound like "ding" when you knock on them, and Sadowsky uses the ones that sound like "dong"? Is all the difference coming from different taste in wood block's sound at different luthiers? [/quote] It might be as simple as that... but then you factor in all the other variables like neck construction..and off you go at a tangent. It might not be that far off...but enough for someone to think that is the 'one' Just pick one up and decide you can work it... After a few weeks you should have unlocked a bit more but if it sounds like a dog on day one... that is the one you don't buy, IMO. And the other thing you can ask is...if this kit is so great, then why is it for sale..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1397519882' post='2424844'] I've played near identical Fender Jazzes (same year of manufacture, exact same model etc) back to back and even they sound different. I know a top pro guy who bought a brand new 2013 Fender P US Standard and asked Fender for another that sounded the same so he'd have a spare to take on tour. They couldn't find one. . . [/quote] Really? I find it pretty hard to believe that the biggest manufacturer of J basses on the planet can't make two near-identical basses, so either he had some strange outlier to their normal quality control, or he wasn't important enough for them to try a couple of dozen basses to find one the same? FWIW I tried about 10 2012 P-Basses last year and they all sounded very similar, in the end the decision came down to weight, slightly better wood/resonance and colour choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 [quote name='6v6' timestamp='1397550167' post='2424954'] Really? I find it pretty hard to believe that the biggest manufacturer of J basses on the planet can't make two near-identical basses, so either he had some strange outlier to their normal quality control, or he wasn't important enough for them to try a couple of dozen basses to find one the same? FWIW I tried about 10 2012 P-Basses last year and they all sounded very similar, in the end the decision came down to weight, slightly better wood/resonance and colour choice. [/quote] Yes, really. A very senior guy at Fender went through a large number of UK stock instruments and couldn't replicate the tone of this one particular bass. He even went so far as to say that it was unlikely they'd ever com across another that would sound identical. The player is very well known and Fender have been 'courting' him for a while to play their instruments. They specifically chose this bass because they thought it would be perfect for him (they were right) but they didn't foresee that he'd then ask for an identical spare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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