Logic Pro X

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1374109628' post='2145466']
Fiddling about is the only way to do it. I've been fiddling with my DAW for six years now (fnarr).
It's like life... the more you learn, the more you realise you can't possibly know everything!
[/quote]

But as the example given above, I never would have learned how to time stretch a piece of audio if it weren't for looking for a tutorial. Fiddling about wouldn't have gotten me there.

[moonbass]

I know this might be controversial, but I find Logic Help is usually useful (if a bit dry and boring!) and it looks like they've improved it a lot for X.

[discreet]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1374142566' post='2145682']But as the example given above, I never would have learned how to time stretch a piece of audio if it weren't for looking for a tutorial. Fiddling about wouldn't have gotten me there.[/quote]

Using help and Googling tutorials is valid, too. What I'm trying to say is, there are no shortcuts to this. If you want to get your ideas across really quick and without learning the software then you need to hire someone to do it for you.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1374145626' post='2145715']
Using help and Googling tutorials is valid, too. What I'm trying to say is, there are no shortcuts to this. If you want to get your ideas across really quick and without learning the software then you need to hire someone to do it for you.
[/quote]

I'm not looking for a shortcut, I just find looking for tutorials annoying to say the least. It kind of ties in with my idea of doing reviews on products in 80 seconds. I don't want flim-flam, I want the information, and I want to put it to use.

[BigRedX]

Does Logic still come with printed manuals? I bought Logic Studio 8 which came in a huge heavy box crammed full of manuals and reference books. Previous versions came with a big ring-bound manual, that had pages added to it with each subsequent upgrade.

I think the big problem with home recording currently is because you are essentially using the same tools as those doing it professionally, your expectations are so much higher.

30 years ago if you wanted to do some serious multi-track recording that meant expensive studio time. Recording at home meant a 4-track cassette portastudio or if you were particularly wealthy one of the new budget 8-track reel-to-reel machines and maybe an 8-channel desk. You spent a lot of your time battling against tape noise and working out how best to make use of your limited number of tracks. While there were people who did exceptional things with these kinds of set ups, it was never as easy or quite as good as it would have been in a state-of-the-art 24 track studio.

Nowadays if you are working completely "in the box" the only real difference between a "home recording" and something done in a professional studio is the skill and expertise of the person doing the recording. More reason than ever to spend time mastering the tools you already have rather than simply craving more in the hope that it will make your work easier and better.

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1374056918' post='2144698']
Which is why IMO you should concentrate on learning how to get the best out of the tools you already have, rather than expecting a software upgrade to magically make your recordings sound better.

Think about all those awesome sounding 50s and 60s recordings that were done on very limited equipment. That was all down to people with great ears knowing exactly how to get what they had at their disposable to work for them.
[/quote]

this, don't upgrade to something just because.
just because it is new doesn't make it better, ive read that a lot of top producers are still using protools 6 or 7

in terms of midi instruments, 3rd party are often the way to go, some of the bundled ones are a bit cheap. youd be better spending money on a good external instrument. also you mentioned you mix on headphones/laptop speakers... no point spending a lot of money on good sounding things until you have the monitoring equipment to back it up, a good output system can help you make sh*t plug ins sound good.

but try to keep your head on this, get to grips with what you have so far before you throw money at it. you have only been doing it a while, don't try to run before you can walk

[MiltyG565]

So some of you are saying absolutely DON'T spend money on plugins at this stage, some are saying do. Personally, I would buy a few if I felt I needed them right now. I don't but I am looking more information about them for future reference, because I likely will buy some in the future.

Logic doesn't have printed manuals anymore. In fact, you need to find them and download them, they aren't even part of the original download! Although, I don't see why they would print manuals considering they don't even create hard copies of the DAW anymore (stopped it last year, I believe).

I'll be getting something decent to mix with as soon as the budget allows. It would be far too easy for me to spend loads of money on this stuff, but I kind of don't like to at the minute, because that's not what my money is for.

I know that because it's new that doesn't make it better. I was wondering if it IS better, not because it's new, but because it's better, and the answer seems to be - no, not really.

I don wonder though if you can download the bass amp and drum plugins for 10 and install them in 9? That would be handy.

[tedmanzie]

you need to know [i]why[/i] you are buying 3rd party plugins, and if you don't know logic very well how can you decide? so i would definitely suggest not buying any plugins, unless for example you know you want the best piano sound money can buy and you can already tell you won't be satisfied with the Logic VIs. there is definitely no need to buy compressors, delays, phasers etc initially.

you can't instal plugins from 10 into 9. also 10 will only run 64 bit plugins and there is no bridge.

if you're not too bothered about the £140 then you could just get going in X and delete 9 (or even sell it). at least you won't be wondering if you're missing out!

i really miss printed manuals btw, as i liked reading them in the bath...

[tedmanzie]

[quote name='MisterFingers' timestamp='1374135838' post='2145579']
[..](And before anyone jumps on me - I tutor HE students in Logic & Pro Tools and it's not a good thing to hide advanced but common audio engineering tools under sub-menus!).
[/quote]

i'm not sure what you mean?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1374163696' post='2146005']
in terms of midi instruments, 3rd party are often the way to go, some of the bundled ones are a bit cheap. youd be better spending money on a good external instrument. also you mentioned you mix on headphones/laptop speakers... no point spending a lot of money on good sounding things until you have the monitoring equipment to back it up, a good output system can help you make sh*t plug ins sound good.
[/quote]

I don't buy this at all. The bundled plugins and instruments are all perfectly adequate. You just need to spend some time getting to know how they work so that you can get the most out of them. Only when you've done this can you start to understand what may or may not be better about 3rd party extras and which ones might be the right ones for you.

As I said before, the history of recorded music is full of wonderful music made with low budget instruments and equipment. The hardware synths that I was using in the 80s were all at the bottom end of the market and I had them because that was all I could afford. These days because of people in the same situation as me making the most of their limited resources and producing with them some fantastic records, these cheap synths that no-one really wanted at the time, are now considered to be classics and highly sought after. The best example of this has to be the Roland TB303. At the time it was released hardly anyone wanted one and you could barely give them away. It wasn't until acid house came along where it was pretty much the sound of the genre, and then price went through the roof.

The only sh*t plugins are ones that cause your DAW or computer to crash. Everything else either gives you a sound you like or it doesn't. However just because you don't like the sound doesn't make it sh*t.

I would however agree with your comments about monitoring. Without a decent monitoring system you can't make any proper decisions about how your recordings are sounding.

Edited July 18, 2013 by BigRedX

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='tedmanzie' timestamp='1374166030' post='2146046']
you need to know [i]why[/i] you are buying 3rd party plugins, and if you don't know logic very well how can you decide? so i would definitely suggest not buying any plugins, unless for example you know you want the best piano sound money can buy and you can already tell you won't be satisfied with the Logic VIs. there is definitely no need to buy compressors, delays, phasers etc initially.
[/quote]

Absolutely! I'm trying to find a good guitar plugin! Logic's guitars are really poor, I think.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='MisterFingers' timestamp='1374140558' post='2145649']
Absolutely...until you have to upgrade because you want some increased functionality or plug-in that you can't install on your set-up, or your files become incompatible with other systems. I had a recording session at a mate's at the weekend and he's still using Logic 5 on Win XP - absolutely no issues and of course I can seamlessly open the song on LP9 on the Mac to correct our er...'interesting' chops. (although my awful fretless intonation is a challenge to fix in the mix).
To be honest I really detest the whole upgrade culture that we have - phones, cars, furniture etc. Basses are (natch) different though.
[/quote]

The thing about upgrading all those other things is that there's an element of waste to them. Neither Logic 9 or Logic 10 have any amount of waste to them, because they are completely digital. I don't like the whole "This is 3 years old, it's ancient! WE MUST GET A NEW ONE!" thing either, and Apple only drive the mentality further (by releasing new OSs, phones, iPods and various other things on a yearly basis), but if Logic 10 was really good enough to warrant the extra £140, I would consider it. At the minute though, I'm not really considering it too much.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1374167748' post='2146083']
Absolutely! I'm trying to find a good guitar plugin! Logic's guitars are really poor, I think.
[/quote]

What do you mean? A guitar amp sim or an actual virtual guitar instrument?

[crez5150]

Not sure if you've seen this yet...... Last few lines are very funny

http://youtu.be/cNqfKDQrBrA

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1374169103' post='2146102']
What do you mean? A guitar amp sim or an actual virtual guitar instrument?
[/quote]

Guitar instrument. The amp plugins are fine, although not fantastic.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1374169489' post='2146107']
Not sure if you've seen this yet...... Last few lines are very funny

[media]http://youtu.be/cNqfKDQrBrA[/media]
[/quote]

Haaa!

Logic Pro 9 was reduced? What price was it on release? £140 is what I paid in January. The new Logic Pro X is £140 too.

Apparently, it was boasted than Logic Pro 9 users could upgrade to Logic Pro X for £140... so... upgrade to it for exactly what it costs to buy then? Ah right...

[BigRedX]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1374169512' post='2146108']
Guitar instrument. The amp plugins are fine, although not fantastic.
[/quote]

IMO making a virtual guitar instrument sound good is all about the playing and programming, not the sound itself. You need to think like a guitarist or it will never sound right no matter how "realistic" the sounds themselves are.

The easiest way to do this is the use a guitar with a MIDI pickup to program the parts, but if you can do that then you might as well record the actual guitar sound itself.

[BigRedX]

Anyone griping about the current cost of Logic should bear in mind that when it first came out IIRC it cost around £400, and it was just a MIDI sequencer program. You needed a MIDI interface plus actual hardware synths and samplers to do anything with it. When it acquired the ability to record audio (around version 3) it was a £300 or so add on, and the first virtual instruments for Logic 4 had to be purchased separately at around £100 each! In order to do anything meaningful with audio recording you had to have a dedicated audio hard drive attached via a fast SCSI card. Upgrades to the latest version were £200-£300 a time and generally involved swapping the copy protection dongle which meant that you could be without a usable application for about a week.

By comparison £140 for a fully featured DAW application with bundled plugins and software instruments is a complete bargain.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1374171867' post='2146134']
IMO making a virtual guitar instrument sound good is all about the playing and programming, not the sound itself. You need to think like a guitarist or it will never sound right no matter how "realistic" the sounds themselves are.

The easiest way to do this is the use a guitar with a MIDI pickup to program the parts, but if you can do that then you might as well record the actual guitar sound itself.
[/quote]

Exactly! For one, the guitar sounds in Logic aren't great to start with, but there's no programmable guitar plugin, that would allow you to programme strumming patterns, muted strums/picks, pick attack, chord progressions. That's why I would want the plugin for that. Also, my skill level, disablement and lack of recording gear all play against me in the "record it yourself" thing, otherwise I would.

[lowdown]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1374173765' post='2146162']
but there's no programmable guitar plugin, that would allow you to programme strumming patterns, muted strums/picks, pick attack, chord progressions.
[/quote]

There are quite a few.... Acoustic gtr, Strats, Metal, power chords, Telecasters....
Pick, strum,scrapes, up & downs etc...and most of them are very good, and with minimal programming or playing.
Key strokes for changing the articulations.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1374175229' post='2146179']
There are quite a few.... Acoustic gtr, Strats, Metal, power chords, Telecasters....
Pick, strum,scrapes, up & downs etc...and most of them are very good, and with minimal programming or playing.
Key strokes for changing the articulations.
[/quote]

But there isn't one in Logic.

[lowdown]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1374176147' post='2146193']
But there isn't one in Logic.
[/quote]

What's wrong with programming your own then ? [In Logic] - You have PRV, Mod wheel, Pitch wheel, god knows how many cc#'s available.
You can paint in your own rhythms, arpeggios, or even write in the score editor. Or you can paste your own audio loops together [there are plenty of Audio loops in Logic and Garageband] and tons of free ones on the net [that come in progressions].Chop them up, re pitch them and be creative.
Reading through the thread, I have noticed the only thing holding you back, seems to be you [and I am not taking the piss, by the way]
You just really need to get stuck into anything tutorial wise on YouTube. It does not have to be just Logic either, the principles are the same in any DAW.
It seems to me that you need to read up or watch as much as you can regarding anything related to the art of Midi part construction,
and it really ain't that hard - even getting the basic together will take you a long way.

The Logic sounds are more than capable [Stack two or three sounds up together and experiment]
You would be surprised what makes it onto Film and TV/all Media that has just been put together in Logic
using just the Logic sounds.

Not sure how much Guitar you play, but combining even a little bit of real Guitar with some programmed Guitar,
will blend into a mix in a reasonably realistic way.

Edited July 18, 2013 by lowdown

[plumbob]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1374172626' post='2146146']
Anyone griping about the current cost of Logic should bear in mind that when it first came out IIRC it cost around £400, and it was just a MIDI sequencer program. You needed a MIDI interface plus actual hardware synths and samplers to do anything with it. When it acquired the ability to record audio (around version 3) it was a £300 or so add on, and the first virtual instruments for Logic 4 had to be purchased separately at around £100 each! In order to do anything meaningful with audio recording you had to have a dedicated audio hard drive attached via a fast SCSI card. Upgrades to the latest version were £200-£300 a time and generally involved swapping the copy protection dongle which meant that you could be without a usable application for about a week.

By comparison £140 for a fully featured DAW application with bundled plugins and software instruments is a complete bargain.
[/quote]


Ahh !!! Those were the days C-Lab Notator and an Atari !!!

Still reckon that was the tightess thing i ever played too !

[JamesFlashG]

haha that video Crez posted is cracking me up

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1374178956' post='2146244']
Not sure how much Guitar you play, but combining even a little bit of real Guitar with some programmed Guitar,
will blend into a mix in a reasonably realistic way.
[/quote]

I've written entire songs. And they will be recorded when I can. But I can't do anything like that right now, and I want to be able to make guitar sounds.