Bay Splayer Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 just popped a wizard 84 neck pickup into my SX jazz as the one supplied was weak as hell, yet the bridge pup was fine. am very pleased with the pup, lovely boomy sound, yet when [b]both[/b] pups turned on full my bass sounds very weak. front only is fine, back only is fine just not [b]both[/b] on full? another thing is that the pup originally supplied had one [b]RED[/b] wire running from pup to pots yet the wizard has two wires running from pup to pots, one [b]BLACK[/b] and one [b]WHITE.[/b] using a diagram from the internet i wired the black to the centre of the pot and the white to the middle of the three little bits that protrude from the pot. any help much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono Bolton Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 I had the neck pickup of my Jazz replaced with a Duncan SJB-3 and it does the same thing. For the purposes of ease of use, when I put new knobs on, I turned them both up full then made sure screws faced the same way (making sense?). I've found that it's not when the volumes are full, but when they're both in the same position that the volume almost completely drops out and as a result sounds really thin. Someone suggested that they could have been wired in series, but I just make sure one pickup is up more than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 [quote name='jono b' post='214389' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:33 PM']I had the neck pickup of my Jazz replaced with a Duncan SJB-3 and it does the same thing. For the purposes of ease of use, when I put new knobs on, I turned them both up full then made sure screws faced the same way (making sense?). I've found that it's not when the volumes are full, but when they're both in the same position that the volume almost completely drops out and as a result sounds really thin. Someone suggested that they could have been wired in series, but I just make sure one pickup is up more than the other.[/quote] You need to reverse the two wires from one of the pickups, if both pickups together produce a really thin sound (unlike the typical slight vol drop you get with a Jazz bass ) then they are out of phase with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 [quote name='Paul_C' post='214397' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:54 PM']You need to reverse the two wires from one of the pickups, if both pickups together produce a really thin sound (unlike the typical slight vol drop you get with a Jazz bass ) then they are out of phase with each other.[/quote] how please diagram would be fantastic if you could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 [quote name='uptonmark' post='214400' date='Jun 7 2008, 03:01 PM']how please diagram would be fantastic if you could [/quote] If there are two wires from, for example, the neck pickup - one wired to the back of the pot and the other to a tag on the pot, then swap them round. Nothing more complicated than that. Standard Jazz bass wiring looks like this - [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=std_jazz_bass"]http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wirin...c=std_jazz_bass[/url] - but just because it says black to pot/white to tag doesn't mean that it'll work properly in your case because you're using different pickups and colours are not consistent across all manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 will give that a go. cheers for that mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allighatt0r Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 I had this problem when i changed the pick-ups on one of my basses, it was just luck i think that i decided to change one set of wires over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 If you're lucky then swapping the wires around on one pickup will work fine - but if you're not lucky you may find that you don't get the "humbucking effect" when both pickups are full on. I've had this - its because one pickup also needs to be reversed magnetic polarity as well as reverse wound. If you do a google you can find more details, but from what I remember there isn't a standard between makers, although a pair from any maker will be fine you can't rely on single pickups from different makers working as a pair (even if they claim absolute vintage fender authenticity..) BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbass Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 [quote name='BassBod' post='214428' date='Jun 7 2008, 03:48 PM']If you're lucky then swapping the wires around on one pickup will work fine - but if you're not lucky you may find that you don't get the "humbucking effect" when both pickups are full on. I've had this - its because one pickup also needs to be reversed magnetic polarity as well as reverse wound. If you do a google you can find more details, but from what I remember there isn't a standard between makers, although a pair from any maker will be fine you can't rely on single pickups from different makers working as a pair (even if they claim absolute vintage fender authenticity..) BB[/quote] This guy explains the magnetic phasing thing: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zk6Kbg6p78"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zk6Kbg6p78[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 swapped wires around still the same not happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Contact Andy at Wizard, he's really helpful and may be able to sort it out with an email or phone call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnt Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 (edited) [quote name='uptonmark' post='214543' date='Jun 7 2008, 06:48 PM']swapped wires around still the same not happy[/quote] You didn't swap the wires from [b]both[/b] pickups, did you? This is all about the relative phase [b]between[/b] the pickups, so you need to swap the wires of [b]one[/b] pickup, and leave the other one unchanged! Then, if you get them both working together, but it gets noisy, you may be able to sort that out by doing the following to one pickup [b]only[/b]: - reverse the wires (again) - take out each polepiece magnet, and put it back in upside down. Edited June 7, 2008 by bnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 only swapped wires from the new pickup bnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 [quote name='uptonmark' post='214381' date='Jun 7 2008, 03:27 PM']another thing is that the pup originally supplied had one [b]RED[/b] wire running from pup to pots yet the wizard has two wires running from pup to pots, one [b]BLACK[/b] and one [b]WHITE.[/b] using a diagram from the internet i wired the black to the centre of the pot and the white to the middle of the three little bits that protrude from the pot.[/quote] Some humbuckers have a centre tap on the coil, which basically means they have an extra 3rd wire joining the coil at the halfway point. with a bit of creative wiring you can choose between using the pickup as a humbucker or as a single coil pickup, or a blend of the two. In your case it sounds like the original didn't have this centre tap and the new one does. You have a choice, you can ignore the third wire and use it as a direct replacement for your original or (and this is the option I would choose) you can rewire to give yourself the extra range of tones of having an additional single coil for free. If you just wanna replace then I would guess that the centre tap is the white one, but you can test by measuring the resistance between any two wires. the resistance between the centre tap and either of the other two will be lowest of all other combinations. I suppose the easiest way would be to find a specsheet on the web. Disconnect this (don't cut it off at the pickup end, just use a bit of insulation tape on the free end to leave it there in case of mistakes or if you wanna use it later) wire the remaining two wires as your original and bob's your mothers brother. (now, you may get the phasing problems. If so, reverse wires and job done) OK then, lets look at option 2 The original pickup had one wire to the pot, where did the other go, is it running to ground on the jack or do you have a preamp. I take it you've put the 3rd wire of the new pickup to the same point... I suspect that you're getting the phasing problems described in the above posts, but because of the way you have it wired you're only getting partial cancellation from one half of the humbucker, and swapping the wires has just given you partial cancellation from the other half of the humbucker instead. Tell you what, if you can draw a diagram of the current wiring I should be able to see where the problem is and make recommendations. (a photo would be useful as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 [quote name='SteveO' post='214821' date='Jun 8 2008, 12:09 PM']Some humbuckers have a centre tap on the coil, which basically means they have an extra 3rd wire joining the coil at the halfway point. with a bit of creative wiring you can choose between using the pickup as a humbucker or as a single coil pickup, or a blend of the two. In your case it sounds like the original didn't have this centre tap and the new one does. You have a choice, you can ignore the third wire and use it as a direct replacement for your original or (and this is the option I would choose) you can rewire to give yourself the extra range of tones of having an additional single coil for free. If you just wanna replace then I would guess that the centre tap is the white one, but you can test by measuring the resistance between any two wires. the resistance between the centre tap and either of the other two will be lowest of all other combinations. I suppose the easiest way would be to find a specsheet on the web. Disconnect this (don't cut it off at the pickup end, just use a bit of insulation tape on the free end to leave it there in case of mistakes or if you wanna use it later) wire the remaining two wires as your original and bob's your mothers brother. (now, you may get the phasing problems. If so, reverse wires and job done) OK then, lets look at option 2 The original pickup had one wire to the pot, where did the other go, is it running to ground on the jack or do you have a preamp. I take it you've put the 3rd wire of the new pickup to the same point... I suspect that you're getting the phasing problems described in the above posts, but because of the way you have it wired you're only getting partial cancellation from one half of the humbucker, and swapping the wires has just given you partial cancellation from the other half of the humbucker instead. Tell you what, if you can draw a diagram of the current wiring I should be able to see where the problem is and make recommendations. (a photo would be useful as well)[/quote] I'm fairly certain that the Wizard pup won't be a HB and only has 2 wires not 3. Have you tried to speak to Andy yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I was wondering why the pickup would have two wires for the output, but I think Steve's onto something with the coil tap thing. You've just got to figure out which is the tap. It's not the white and black wires you've got to swap, but the input and output wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Just to clear something up for everyone, the wizards are passive pups no?. One output wire (white) and one wire to ground (black). All this coil tapping in a mute point as fair as they are concerned as they follow the standard layout like the majority of passive singlecoil style pups on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 [quote name='Buzz' post='214835' date='Jun 8 2008, 12:27 PM']Just to clear something up for everyone, the wizards are passive pups no?. One output wire (white) and one wire to ground (black). All this coil tapping in a mute point as fair as they are concerned as they follow the standard layout like the majority of passive singlecoil style pups on the market.[/quote] Agreed! However be aware that the whole white/output & black/ground may well be turned on it's head if Andy didn't use that config. I purchased a pair of pups off Andy and they had red/green wiring, Andy put me right with a simple phonecall and even talked me through the soldering job as to what went where to get it working with my active EQ. There are a whole bunch of guys on here with the same pup, why not look on the review thread for the Wizard pups and contact one of those guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 [quote name='uptonmark' post='214381' date='Jun 7 2008, 03:27 PM']...another thing is that the pup originally supplied had one [b]RED[/b] wire running from pup to pots yet the wizard has two wires running from pup to pots, one [b]BLACK[/b] and one [b]WHITE.[/b] using a diagram from the internet i wired the black to the centre of the pot and the white to the middle of the three little bits that protrude from the pot. any help much appreciated[/quote] [quote name='warwickhunt' post='214381' date='Jun 7 2008, 01:22 PM']I'm fairly certain that the Wizard pup won't be a HB and only has 2 wires not 3. Have you tried to speak to Andy yet?[/quote] OK, I have actually bothered to look at the wizard 84's this time before posting. Yup, the're not humbuckers, forget everything I've said above, there's only 2 wires. I find it hard to believe that the original had only 1 wire, there must have been 2 for the electrons to go round and do their thing... so that means that there was annother wire going somewhere... the 2 wires from your wizard's need to go where the 2 wires from the original was. it's that simple. ... oh and swap them if you get phasing problems. Oh, bugger, that's all been said before by other peeps now hasn't it. you'd better ignore this post aswell then. ... looking for coat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 thanks to all of you for taking time to give advice. gonna call andy at wizard as he seems a nice bloke. gotta a feeling i will probably end up buying the bridge pup as well, as i suppose they are designed to work together so it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 found these two diagrams on the net..... [url="http://www.axesrus.com/images/BASS1.jpg"]http://www.axesrus.com/images/BASS1.jpg[/url] [url="http://www.sonfatherguitars.com/Schematics/Jazz%20Bass.GIF"]http://www.sonfatherguitars.com/Schematics/Jazz%20Bass.GIF[/url] which one do i use though???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 [quote name='uptonmark' post='215077' date='Jun 8 2008, 08:13 PM']found these two diagrams on the net..... [url="http://www.axesrus.com/images/BASS1.jpg"]http://www.axesrus.com/images/BASS1.jpg[/url] [url="http://www.sonfatherguitars.com/Schematics/Jazz%20Bass.GIF"]http://www.sonfatherguitars.com/Schematics/Jazz%20Bass.GIF[/url] which one do i use though????[/quote] They're both showing you the same thing (the same as the diagram I pointed out) except one doesn't show the earths on the pots linked by wire. This is because a std. jazz control plate provides the common earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 ^^ What Paul_C said. Oddly enough, that first diagram is the seymour duncan one for jazzers, looks like someone's removed their copyright info from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 sorted it out now well happy sounds the DOGS BOLLOX quality pups them wizards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='uptonmark' post='215593' date='Jun 9 2008, 06:18 PM']sorted it out now well happy sounds the DOGS BOLLOX quality pups them wizards[/quote] care to share with us how it was sorted ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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