Do you have your own personaity on the bass.?

[Pete Academy]

I've played over 60 Steely Dan songs over the years, including the aforementioned Nightfly track. To me it's all about getting the feel right rather than getting the notes right. Any half decent player can learn a bass part by rote, but does it feel right? I still don't play Chuck Rainey,s Kid Charlemagne part like he does, but I've stopped worrying about it at long last.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Pete Academy

[White Cloud]

If you aren't being paid to replicate songs to the minutest detail in a professional capacity you should play EVERY cover version with your personality.

I honestly cannot think of one cover that I play with my band that I replicate the bass line religiously....they are all my version (i.e. improved!)

[Left Foot]

Could anyone here who has put their stamp or their personality into a cover post an example... I'm interested into what extent this can be done.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1368557888' post='2078582']
I've played over 60 Steely Dan songs over the years, including the aforementioned Nightfly track. To me it's all about getting the feel right rather than getting the notes right. Any half decent player can learn a bass part by rote, but does it feel right? I still don't play Chuck Rainey,s Kid Charlemagne part like he does, but I've stopped worrying about it at long last.
[/quote]

Exactly.... you learn the part as in how to play what when..and then you play it your way.
You have to bring to the part something ... otherwise it is just notes and you may not be anything like the player you are
covering..

Until you get some sort of personality into the track... you are just playing by numbers.
Personality isn't anything to do with the player and how he feels...it is how they make the track come alive
with their part or playing.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1368551028' post='2078445']
Don't forget some folk (even bass players) can be "analytical" types. They play the original line exactly; anything else could, in their opinion, be "wrong".
[/quote]

I'm very analytical in nature and with that in mind I tailor my approach to each song but with a common underlying strategy.

I use this thought experiment: if you got hold of say 2 or 3 other takes made during the recording of the original song - which bits would be identical, which bits would vary (and how) with the same basic feel, which bits would possibly be completely different ?. So when I play the song myself I try to as far as possible to operate within the same parameters as I feel the original player was using.

To take a well known song like Smoke on the Water. The intro obviously cannot be f***ed in any shape or form (its either "right" or "wrong") , its iconic to the song. The verse is based on signature ***~***~ rhythm but you vary the actual notes within certain bounds provided the rhythm stays fairly constant. During the solo the bass goes "all over the place" and I do likewise.

Of course it also depends on the player I'm trying to emulate, I'll happily have a stab at pretending to be Glover /Butler/Murray etc but if I was learning say a Rush song then I would learn every last bit as-is because Geds music instincts are on a whole other level and I wouldn't dare try to second guess if/how he might vary something.

So the short answer is that no, I don't think I have my own particular playing personality, but rather I try to emulate the personality of the original player so that I can mix it up a bit without diluting what they contributed to the song.

Edited May 14, 2013 by bassman7755

[JTUK]

But Rush are a band TOTALLY devoid of musicality and personality. IMO..!!
If ever a band went thru playing by numbers it is these guys...if the Snakes and Arrows Sky Arts shows are typical..??
I had the misfotune to watch far more of that TV show than I should have...recently..!!

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1368569240' post='2078790']
But Rush are a band TOTALLY devoid of musicality and personality. IMO..!!
If ever a band went thru playing by numbers it is these guys...if the Snakes and Arrows Sky Arts shows are typical..??
I had the misfotune to watch far more of that TV show than I should have...recently..!!
[/quote]

I think youre mistaking me for someone who give a monkeys toss what you think about them.

[Left Foot]

[quote name='Left Foot' timestamp='1368566266' post='2078758']
Could anyone here who has put their stamp or their personality into a cover post an example... I'm interested into what extent this can be done.
[/quote]so... any takers?

[krysh]

as a non native speaker I understand personality in this context as "own voice" since I am a personality playing an instrument.
for me finding the own voice on an instrument is the highest goal to reach, and the best compliment I'd like to receive is the one about the original unique voice about me playing on an instrument. I'm on the hunt for this since 30 years and finally start to get closer.

[xilddx]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1368569240' post='2078790']
But Rush are a band TOTALLY devoid of musicality and personality. IMO..!!
If ever a band went thru playing by numbers it is these guys...if the Snakes and Arrows Sky Arts shows are typical..??
I had the misfotune to watch far more of that TV show than I should have...recently..!!
[/quote]

You mean you don't like what they do. To say what you have said is a highly surprising misjudgement coming from an experienced musician.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Left Foot' timestamp='1368571750' post='2078817']
so... any takers?
[/quote]

I'd love to post a couple of Kit tracks but I have no recordings of them. I have videos of covers but they are as exacting as I can make them. I do think they reflect my personality as my hands and musical brain work differently to the original player and my enjoyment playing them came from that, not the fact I was close to the original.

Edited May 15, 2013 by xilddx

[peteb]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1368569240' post='2078790']
But Rush are a band TOTALLY devoid of musicality and personality. IMO..!!
If ever a band went thru playing by numbers it is these guys...if the Snakes and Arrows Sky Arts shows are typical..??
I had the misfotune to watch far more of that TV show than I should have...recently..!!
[/quote]
I'm not a big fan at all but that is just nonsense...

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Left Foot' timestamp='1368566266' post='2078758']
Could anyone here who has put their stamp or their personality into a cover post an example... I'm interested into what extent this can be done.
[/quote]
It's simple, the band just rearranges the song so that the melody and the lyrics remain the same but the arrangement changes. Mind you, having said that, I really don't see it as 'stamping my personality' on anything. I might be more convinced by the idea of the whole band stamping it's personality.

[bubinga5]

i get the feeling that different people want different things from the bass.

[krysh]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1368603899' post='2078973']
i get the feeling that different people want different things from the bass.
[/quote]
can you please explain what you want to say with this, andrew?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='krysh' timestamp='1368572017' post='2078823']
as a non native speaker I understand personality in this context as "own voice" since I am a personality playing an instrument.
for me finding the own voice on an instrument is the highest goal to reach, and the best compliment I'd like to receive is the one about the original unique voice about me playing on an instrument. I'm on the hunt for this since 30 years and finally start to get closer.
[/quote]
I have low goals, making it to the end of the chorus is good, helping the whole band get there would be even better, and the best compliment would not be about 'original unique voice' (I would laugh to be told that) but something like 'great timing, lovely sound and held the whole band together!'.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1368555406' post='2078536']
You're probably doing it anyway mate. I don't get out of bed thinking "How shall I express myself today?" I just do it, sometimes I f*** it up, but it's definitely me Same with my composing and playing. I don't really think about it, I just have musical instincts I'm compelled to express. Hence my earlier post saying I'm only just realising I DO approach bass a bit differently to a lot of other bassists I've heard. f*** knows if anyone would know that by hearing me play, but I do think I have developed an aesthetic and it's come about through exposure to a lot of music and deciding what I like and don't like in terms of dynamics and nuances and how I use space, accent, polyrhythm, etc.

I grew up on prog rock, Zappa, dub and reggae, opera, pop, etc. I LOVED it all, apart from opera, and all that musical excitement rattles my particles in a particular way. I hate most Jazz but interesting walking bass lines can get me all wet, so I incorporate elements of that in my playing and composing too, although it's a little f***ed up. I love loads of instruments and tiny things Copeland might do on a hi-hat can make me go insane with excitement. So I suppose from all that exposure, synthesis, and spewing out the results in my own music, and bass and guitar stuff I write for other people, emerges some sort of style. I generally know what sort of rhythmic, melodic, harmonic, and spatial climates get me excited, and what doesn't. I only ever incorporate what I like into my own music. The journey is learning that musical language and using it, which is where I am woefully inadequate, if I'd been schooled I'd have a lot more output of much higher quality.
[/quote]
But I don't feel that 'I just have musical instincts I'm compelled to express'. It's the music that matters not me and my personal compulsions.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1368603899' post='2078973']
i get the feeling that different people want different things from the bass.
[/quote]
So do I, maybe that's personality.

[xilddx]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1368606393' post='2079008']
But I don't feel that 'I just have musical instincts I'm compelled to express'. It's the music that matters not me and my personal compulsions.
[/quote]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1368605847' post='2079002']
I have low goals, making it to the end of the chorus is good, helping the whole band get there would be even better, and the best compliment would not be about 'original unique voice' (I would laugh to be told that) but something like 'great timing, lovely sound and held the whole band together!'.
[/quote]

I think you've answered your own question.

[krysh]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1368605847' post='2079002']
I have low goals, making it to the end of the chorus is good, helping the whole band get there would be even better, and the best compliment would not be about 'original unique voice' (I would laugh to be told that) but something like '[b]great timing, lovely sound and held the whole band together[/b]!'.
[/quote]
isn't this the essential condition for a bassplayer to develop an own voice?
I mean you can only become very good and unique if you know the basics, don't you?
and since we are talking about playing bass, it is not about scalebusting and speed...

Edited May 15, 2013 by krysh

[JTUK]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1368572456' post='2078828']
You mean you don't like what they do. To say what you have said is a highly surprising misjudgement coming from an experienced musician.
[/quote]

I know we are going to have to agree to disagree, N.... but dead from the neck down, I'm afraid...IMO.
It isn't so much that I didn't 'like' the Sky footage but there was just no soul or music in the players.
Polished and professional and honed...and an all-round show.. but no playing..just licks and
time honoured 'stuff' churned out.

I must say that I never took to them when they first came out...and if the Sky Arts show that is any sort of pinnacle
..and Rush fans would know far better than I would in that regard, then ..well, words fail me.

I wont say anymore... so lets move on..

[JTUK]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1368572798' post='2078835']
I'm not a big fan at all but that is just nonsense...
[/quote]

I would worry if anyone holds them up as any type of musical standard bearer.

[xilddx]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1368609418' post='2079061']
I know we are going to have to agree to disagree, N.... but dead from the neck down, I'm afraid...IMO.
It isn't so much that I didn't 'like' the Sky footage but there was just no soul or music in the players.
Polished and professional and honed...and an all-round show.. but no playing..just licks and
time honoured 'stuff' churned out.

I must say that I never took to them when they first came out...and if the Sky Arts show that is any sort of pinnacle
..and Rush fans would know far better than I would in that regard, then ..well, words fail me.

I wont say anymore... so lets move on..
[/quote]
[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1368609641' post='2079063']
I would worry if anyone holds them up as any type of musical standard bearer.
[/quote]

We don't want to turn this thread into Rush Wars, but I honestly have no idea why you would come to this conclusion. Hating their music is perfectly fine, saying they are dead from the neck down (sic - I think you mean 'up'), have no musicality or personality is, frankly, a massive sack-full of diseased bollocks mate.

[bubinga5]

[quote name='krysh' timestamp='1368604351' post='2078981']
can you please explain what you want to say with this, andrew?
[/quote]yes i can. i think people who play any instrument have different goals, as to what they want to achieve. im in no way saying any approach or attitude towards music/bass is better than the other, its subjective and personal. but my personal feeling is that music or expression of music is something that should communicate. how well you communicate is up to the individual..

[xilddx]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1368610770' post='2079081']
yes i can. i think people who play any instrument have different goals, as to what they want to achieve. im in no way saying any approach or attitude towards music/bass is better than the other, its subjective and personal. but my personal feeling is that music or expression of music is something that should communicate. how well you communicate is up to the individual..
[/quote]

I'm with you on this, but what do you think is being communicated? Or what is the potential for communication? The way you look can communicate far more than the music in many ways for a lot of people, the music connections comes later. Hence my usual rejoinder that most people SEE (popular) music before they hear it.

Edited May 15, 2013 by xilddx