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MoJoKe

In Ear Monitors - help needed...

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1372414433' post='2125419']
Qu16... which is what you really want.
[/quote]

No ipad... Qu16 - Yes, if money was no object, that would be the one, but double what we can really afford at the moment... Heyho!

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Little bit of a stretch to your budget but has 16 mic pres, full recall and iPad/iPhone remote capabilities is a used Yamaha 01v96.

I'm using a first generation 01v with my function band (we had a limited budget and I bagged it for under £200!) and whilst its possible to bodge wireless control with a laptop and a router in between, I do think the 12 mic pres will be limiting for bigger shows, so I'll be hiring in on anything large.

Easy to navigate once you get a feel for where everything is though, and (as with all the decent digi stuff now) all your outboard is, err, onboard!

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[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1372895159' post='2131483']
Little bit of a stretch to your budget but has 16 mic pres, full recall and iPad/iPhone remote capabilities is a used Yamaha 01v96.

I'm using a first generation 01v with my function band (we had a limited budget and I bagged it for under £200!) and whilst its possible to bodge wireless control with a laptop and a router in between, I do think the 12 mic pres will be limiting for bigger shows, so I'll be hiring in on anything large.

Easy to navigate once you get a feel for where everything is though, and (as with all the decent digi stuff now) all your outboard is, err, onboard!
[/quote]

we use one of these for our function band and as long as your not running horns or anything like that you should be alright with a regular 5 piece on it even if you want to full mic the drums.

i'm expecting delivery of a set of alien ears c3's on monday (their triple driver models) i'll do a review of them once i've had chance to road test them on a gig

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[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1372895159' post='2131483']
Little bit of a stretch to your budget but has 16 mic pres, full recall and iPad/iPhone remote capabilities is a used Yamaha 01v96.

I'm using a first generation 01v with my function band (we had a limited budget and I bagged it for under £200!) and whilst its possible to bodge wireless control with a laptop and a router in between, I do think the 12 mic pres will be limiting for bigger shows, so I'll be hiring in on anything large.

Easy to navigate once you get a feel for where everything is though, and (as with all the decent digi stuff now) all your outboard is, err, onboard!
[/quote]

Unless being dumb, I cannot find an O1V96 (even on Yam website? I'm probably gonna get tol not to be foolish now!) with more than 12 pre's? if I could I would agree, about perfect...

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[quote name='MoJoKe' timestamp='1373747822' post='2141286']


Unless being dumb, I cannot find an O1V96 (even on Yam website? I'm probably gonna get tol not to be foolish now!) with more than 12 pre's? if I could I would agree, about perfect...
[/quote]

Sorry, you're right, I was being a divvy. It has 16 channels but the last four are line inputs - the old 01V that I own had two stereo channels so only 14 faders to mix from. If you've got any line level sources or external mic pres you can still make use of the four line channels to get your full 16.

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Hi guys

So as promised heres my review of alien ears C3’s

Price - £370.00 (plus £30 for moulds)
I think this is a fairly reasonable price for triple driver units its around the same price as 1964’s and JH Audio’s triple driver offering and way below ACS’ T1’s (I’m aware the T1’s are made from silicone which accounts for some of the price difference) the only sticking point is that they are based in the US so shipping takes a little longer that it would do with a company based in the UK and obviously if there are any problems with them they have to be shipped back to be repaired.

Feel
At first there is a little discomfort wearing the C3’s as I’m used to my Shure se215’s (which if anyone is looking for a cheap alternative to moulds I highly recommend I’ve used them for 2 or 3 months before I had my C3’s and they did the job) however that being said you do get used to them after a few hours and they feel snug and secure even with the cord not pulled up the back of your neck.

Sound Quality
The sound huge! Everything is nice and defined I went for the normal C3 which have 2 low drivers and then a mid high driver as I wanted the extra punch in the low end to hear my bass they achieve this and more having 2 low drivers doesn’t muddy the sound at all its still very flat however there is just a little bit more low mid grunt which is very pleasing to my ears. The stereo spread is excellent too if something is panned slightly you hear it exactly where it’s supposed to be which is great if your running your in ears in stereo as when you hear a guitar it sounds like its coming from the amp rather than from inside your head which can happen when running in ears in mono

Look
I’m not big on looks to be honest I couldn’t really care what something looks like as long as it works but just a little note some of the colours on the alien ears website are not standard colours I ordered my monitors in green expecting it to be the nice neon green which is shown on the website. When I took delivery of them they came back as a darker kind of olive green, but like I said not a major issue I don’t really care what they look like.

Overall
First impressions of these monitors are great not many drawbacks and they sound great for the price I paid for them. I haven’t had chance to properly road test these yet so I can’t really comment on the durability of them, but one piece of advice I would give is check out the guys over at The Headphone Company these are the guys I used and the service was great I wasn’t the easiest customer to deal with and Paul took care of me and made my life easy it also means that I have a uk distributer to deal with so If I have any issues they will deal with alien ears on my behalf (international phone calls and shipping adds up) which is a nice safety net to have. So overall definitely recommend these to anyone looking to take a step up with their in ear monitoring and get moulds done.

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Just an addition - bought some cheapy headphone mixers from Thomann - the Millenium one - for use with a headphone extension for when we have deps in. They are are good cheap option for those looking for a simple headphone amp on a budget. Annoying standard euro plug but nothing an adaptor won't fix... and you can always run on a 9v battery which will see you through a gig no problem.

EDIT - these things [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_hpa_in_ear.htm"][color="#0f72da"]http://www.thomann.d..._hpa_in_ear.htm[/color][/url]

[color="#0f72da"][/color]

But beware - they have no limiter so use at your own risk. I am running a brickwall limiter on my desk.

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That looks good and robust. I have one of these

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_miniamp_amp_800.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_miniamp_amp_800.htm[/url]

Still no limiter, and maybe not as well built for the road, but has 2 distinct stereo input channels which can be switched to any of the 4 stereo headphone amps, each of which has 2 x 1/4in headphone outputs. Very versatile live and in the studio, as as such, very good value if you don't mind the brand!

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[quote name='MoJoKe' timestamp='1374070799' post='2144969']
That looks good and robust. I have one of these

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_miniamp_amp_800.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...amp_amp_800.htm[/url]

Still no limiter, and maybe not as well built for the road, but has 2 distinct stereo input channels which can be switched to any of the 4 stereo headphone amps, each of which has 2 x 1/4in headphone outputs. Very versatile live and in the studio, as as such, very good value if you don't mind the brand!
[/quote]

Hey, that's pretty useful. Can't complain at the money for that level of functionality.

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Quite excited - I have been asked to audition a truck load of iems against my T1s. Looking forward to some JHA16 action... my credit card is trembling.

How this came about is that I was talking about ACS and the T1s, (being more than peeved that the ambient system still hasn't materialised) and I started thinking, given what the retail price on these ambient systems are reporting to be, it may aswell be prudent to look at other IEMs to gauge how good my ACS T1s fair against some of the real top end IEMs. I haven't missed the ambient sound at this stage - I thought I would (hence my want of the ambient system)... so thought I would investigate just how good the quality of the sound coming from the ACS really is and maybe rethink. Who knows...

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I was very close to buying a pair of T1s but went for a pair of Aud-5Xs from [url="http://audioearz.com/"]http://audioearz.com/[/url]
I didn't take this decision lightly and put a fair bit of research in to finding the ones that were best for me. After reading a lot of (very positive) reviews on headfi I decided that the wait for the 5 driver 5Xs were worth it, especially as I had the opportunity to get them tax free. Mitch, the guy that does them was really helpful and I happily recommend him.
I actually prefer the acrylic to the silicon; I have silicon earplugs for work and they acrylic just slide in and out easier which I prefer. Silicon will give you a little bit more noise isolation but in saying that, Mitch actually fills part of the 5Xs with silicon so that evens things out a bit.

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Good stuff - what colour scheme did you go for in the end then? (this is a very important factor when it comes to cIEMs!)

What are you using in front of you IEMs? Wired/Wireless?

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I went for clear in the end as I wanted them to be as inconspicuous as possible, especially for when I´m using them on public transport and stuff. I quite like how you can see all the drivers crammed in their too which isn't a problem when they are well made and devoid of defects. I´ve seen some that have the first half inch coloured (normally red-left/blue-right) which would help disguise any ear wax a little.
If you have any question about potential IEMs then head over to head-fi (pun intended) as a guy called average_joe has done some incredibly indepth reviews of the best Custom IEMS. He was also very forthcoming with advice when I messaged him direct (see here for his reveiw of the ones I bought [url="http://www.head-fi.org/t/579760/dream-earz-aud-5x-custom-iem-review-pure-value-565-also-the-appreciation-thread"]http://www.head-fi.org/t/579760/dream-earz-aud-5x-custom-iem-review-pure-value-565-also-the-appreciation-thread[/url])
Oh, and I've stuck with wired into the IEM mixing desk as I dont need to wander around on stage and just prefer the simplicity of being plugged in. Its also a LOT cheaper!

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I've spent many an hour trawling through head-fi. Some very informed people on there... some very not so informed too! I've checked a lot of average_joe's threads. Seems particularly clued up with real world experience - unlike alot of guys out there posting drivel on the internet!

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[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1380188848' post='2221964']
Quite excited - I have been asked to audition a truck load of iems against my T1s. Looking forward to some JHA16 action... my credit card is trembling.

How this came about is that I was talking about ACS and the T1s, (being more than peeved that the ambient system still hasn't materialised) and I started thinking, given what the retail price on these ambient systems are reporting to be, it may aswell be prudent to look at other IEMs to gauge how good my ACS T1s fair against some of the real top end IEMs. I haven't missed the ambient sound at this stage - I thought I would (hence my want of the ambient system)... so thought I would investigate just how good the quality of the sound coming from the ACS really is and maybe rethink. Who knows...
[/quote]

Rethink done! My ACS are going to be taking backseat against my new order. Guess who spent the weekend auditioning CIEMs?

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Hi there,

Newbie in the IEM world have questions about IEM wireless systems for you the experts !

I understood the IEM part is the most important part.
So for those who bought ACS IEM, T1 Live or T1 seem to be a great choice.
Did you make your ACS IEM custom with molding it to your ears ?
Or ACS is selling top of line IEM as standard without molding ?

Another point is I cannot make a decision about the frequency range for the IEM wireless systems.
Wireless systems like the Shure PSM900 or Sennheiser EW 300 IEM G3 seem to become obsolete as frequencies are used or reserved through time for other applications.
How make a decision about a wireless system according to the frequency range ?
This would be a shame a 1 Grand IEM wireless systems would be not usable after a few years only.

Last but not least :
AKG released the IVM 4500 wireless system in 2012, as Shure released PSM 900 in 2011 and Sennheiser EW 300 IEM G3 in 2009.
The're all in the same price range.
Shure PSM 900 seems to be a winner... but why buying an 2 or 3 years old product when the newest seems to be the better as transmitting sound through wireless required the best technology available ?

Thanks a lot,

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[quote name='VicMacKey' timestamp='1383835452' post='2269772']
Hi there,

Newbie in the IEM world have questions about IEM wireless systems for you the experts !

I understood the IEM part is the most important part.
So for those who bought ACS IEM, T1 Live or T1 seem to be a great choice.
Did you make your ACS IEM custom with molding it to your ears ?
Or ACS is selling top of line IEM as standard without molding ?

Another point is I cannot make a decision about the frequency range for the IEM wireless systems.
Wireless systems like the Shure PSM900 or Sennheiser EW 300 IEM G3 seem to become obsolete as frequencies are used or reserved through time for other applications.
How make a decision about a wireless system according to the frequency range ?
This would be a shame a 1 Grand IEM wireless systems would be not usable after a few years only.

Last but not least :
AKG released the IVM 4500 wireless system in 2012, as Shure released PSM 900 in 2011 and Sennheiser EW 300 IEM G3 in 2009.
The're all in the same price range.
Shure PSM 900 seems to be a winner... but why buying an 2 or 3 years old product when the newest seems to be the better as transmitting sound through wireless required the best technology available ?

Thanks a lot,
[/quote]

ACS T Series are only sold as custom moulds as far as im aware, and i don't think you should have too much trouble with any of those 3 systems. The Sennheiser still seems to be a touring standard, and i believe (though he'll correct me if i'm wrong) that EBS_freak uses the Shure PSM900 system and highly rates it. The latest wireless tech is all moving toward digital stuff, which isn't adequate for IEM's at the moment due to latency issues as far as i'm aware.

Liam

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[quote name='MoJoKe' timestamp='1372272925' post='2123758']
The MEI1000 is very good, the output is strong and good quality and not had any issues with noise or dropout, so all good so far. I like the sound of a talkback system, that sounds interesting. it's definitely a problem which we'll need to address too!
[/quote]

Is yours the MEI1000 X version? Just all confused about the differences between the G2 and X version. Seems to be frequencies. Is that right?

What does the MEI1000 offer above and beyond the MEI100?

T

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Yep ACS T1 are only available as a custom fit monitor, they are good and I am happy with mine but EBS Freak is right into all of this and has opted for another brand offering multiple bass drivers and he said that the bass response blew ACS out of the water so definitely worth checking out his opinion and findings.

One thing I would ask is Do you really need a wireless system? Unless you are very mobile on stage the answer is probably no! A wired system is a lot cheaper my friend!!

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1383853395' post='2270095']


ACS T Series are only sold as custom moulds as far as im aware, and i don't think you should have too much trouble with any of those 3 systems. The Sennheiser still seems to be a touring standard, and i believe (though he'll correct me if i'm wrong) that EBS_freak uses the Shure PSM900 system and highly rates it. The latest wireless tech is all moving toward digital stuff, which isn't adequate for IEM's at the moment due to latency issues as far as i'm aware.

Liam
[/quote]

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Thanks for the input, I really appreciate!

Fact is, I played once on a very large stage.
First, the wire going from the bass to the pedalboard discońnected as I was going too far from my area.
I hope I ll play on this kind of stage once again.
And the idea comes from the Guitar player to go wireless as he frequently has the same issue as he is moving a lot on stage, large or small.

Second, believe it or not, we had a very bad sound on this large stage.
We try to bring our own sound guy with us at each gig but he is not always available. He was not there this time.
So sometimes we have a bad sound on stage, despite the fact sound is good for the audience. I mean I sometimes don't hear what the Guitar is playing, kick is muddy, bass notes are not clear and so on.
So we also though it was time to have IEM.

Why being wired with IEM while you'd like to be wireless with your instrument?

If we go wired we'll still have the disconnection issue. But I perfectly understand your point, going wired is the best solution regarding the price, the latency, the hassle on stage, the overall sound quality. Edited by VicMacKey

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ACS make all their T series IEMs as customs from impressions of your ears. Personally if you arent going for custom fits I would stick with the Shure buds or in particular the Sennheiser IE8s if thats within your budget as they develop a good amounts of bass. Also gives you option of getting some custom tips at a later date if you want to go down that route. ACS are guys that will make you great custom fit tips.

ACS is just one IEM manufacturer and I have been looking into many customs again. As Ive stated earlier in the thread, I rate ACS very highly but I believe that there are now other systems that will give you as good as, if not better audio for less money but you probably won't have the advantage of the silicon fit. It all depends if you want to go with the ambient pack option... and thats if it ever materialises. Also, ACS is silicon as opposed to acrylic. Without trying to push any particular brand, I'd certainly be looking at 1964, UM, Ultimate Ears, JH Audio, Alien Ears for starters on the custom front.

As for frequencies, your choices are limited to what bands have been allocated by your country. For example, in the UK, theres channel 70 (free for all) and channel 38 (free for all if you hold the license). There are also licenses that you can obtain for ad hoc events or venue licenses but these are generally limited to large scale events. In the UK, most bands are going to be using 38 or 70. So in short, you are told by legislation what frequency band you are allowed to use and your kit must run on yhis frequency. If you dont, you may be unlucky and have to answer to the law and expect big fines or worse. So in short buy the correct gear for the correct frequencies. Be wary of buying stuff off ebay. There are alot of guys trying to offload channel 69 gear in the UK which is now illegal to use. Generally, license bands are pretty stable... Some manufacturers also offered a cheap service to modify older equipment to the new frequency bands. To be honest though, I think we are stable for a good period of time now.

As for release times of the systems, I dont see much to be gained by buying the latest and greatest. I dont think it follows like that. I bought the system I thought performed the best to my ears. This is all open to debate Im sure but at the time I bought my until the Shure and Sennheiser were pretty much identical in price. All my wireless systems are Shure so it seemed to make sense... and I can plan using Shures wireless workbench so that was cool for me. Industry standard wise, I believe there are as many Shure systems out there as the Sennheisers albeit in the PSM1000 form.

If you are going wireless instrument, it doesnt make much sense to go wired iem. Edited by EBS_freak

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Thanks a lot for all the info !

Another question, I don't know if it has been already submitted but : is there a significant difference when number of drivers is increased ?
I mean 3 drivers seems OK, why 5 drivers, dual bass, etc ?
What's the most efficient configuration for live performance you would recommend ?

BTW I checked out the brands you mentionned, selected the models I was interested in, and tried to find the prices, it seems they're all in the same price range now compared to the ACS : [url="http://www.handheldaudio.co.uk/Custom-Ear-Monitors-Custom-Ears/b/2874895031?ie=UTF8&title=Custom+Ear+Monitors&field_brandtextbin=&field_subjectbin=&field_price=&searchRank=title-asc-rank&searchSize=12&searchPage=1&searchBinNameList=brandtextbin%2Csubjectbin%2Cprice"]http://www.handheldaudio.co.uk/Custom-Ear-Monitors-Custom-Ears/b/2874895031?ie=UTF8&title=Custom+Ear+Monitors&field_brandtextbin=&field_subjectbin=&field_price=&searchRank=title-asc-rank&searchSize=12&searchPage=1&searchBinNameList=brandtextbin%2Csubjectbin%2Cprice[/url]

Sorry to burden you with this and thanks again!

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For what it's worth, myself and a client I work for (drummer) are very happy with our Shure E5c's into custom ACS moulds.
if you can find a pair for under £200 and gets some moulds that's some fine in ears for about £300

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With regards to whether there is a difference when increasing the number of drivers, the answer is yes and no. First up, when adding drivers, they need to be added so that they work in phase and such that the crossovers work in harmony with the frequencies of the drivers. Secondly, the addition of drivers can then add bias to a certain frequency range, typically the bass. So double the number of bass drivers typically givens the iems a greater amount of bass... however this doesnt always hold true. For example, doubling the bass can be done so that the headroom of the bass is increased but theres no perceived increase in the bass. This just means you can go louder before your drivers start to struggle as the load is shared between drivers.

For live performance I would always go for the system that gives you the most bass as that is the hardest set of frequencies to amplify, especially live and especially if you are a bass player or drummer. As to which iem is best, I guess that it comes down to budget and what you want to hear. You may prefer the sound of a duo to a triple or a quad. For example, a common discussion in the iem world is the difference between the jh13 and jh16. The 16 has two more bass drivers and develops more bass than the jh13s. For standard listening, a lot of people prefer the flat response of the jh13s whilst musicians using them for live use or bass heads plump for the jh16s. Everybody hears and prefers different sounds signatures so its best to audition iems for your prefered sound. ACS I think are quite pricey for a triple driver unit (they are actually a single and dual driver configuration as opposed to three seperate unit) compared to some of the competition... but having said that, I quite like the response of my ACS T1s but would say that I find the bass adequate as opposed to being full on. There are times where I crave for more bass and greater headroom.

As another option to moulds for universals... 1964, Unique Melody, Alien Ears are a few companies that will reshell your universal (or custom) IEMs if you manage to find a great set of universals at the right price... however, this does not mean a great sounding of universals will sound as great when reshelled; unless the alignment and shell volume is kept similar, it will change the characteristics for the better... or worse! A bit of a gamble!

There are lots of options out there so its best to keep what has been said in this thread in mind and go from there. Edited by EBS_freak

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[quote name='VicMacKey' timestamp='1384165170' post='2273324']
BTW I checked out the brands you mentionned, selected the models I was interested in, and tried to find the prices, it seems they're all in the same price range now compared to the ACS : [url="http://www.handheldaudio.co.uk/Custom-Ear-Monitors-Custom-Ears/b/2874895031?ie=UTF8&title=Custom+Ear+Monitors&field_brandtextbin=&field_subjectbin=&field_price=&searchRank=title-asc-rank&searchSize=12&searchPage=1&searchBinNameList=brandtextbin%2Csubjectbin%2Cprice"]http://www.handhelda...jectbin%2Cprice[/url]
[/quote]

I didn't check your link earlier as I was out of the country and didn't want to get hit for roaming data costs but having seen it now, I don't agree that the prices are at all comparable... especially for a triple driver monitor.

Check the prices from here -

[url="http://www.custom-inearmonitors.co.uk/"]http://www.custom-inearmonitors.co.uk/[/url]

Westone ES3X - £799
M Fidelity SA32 - £780
JH Audio JH7 - £620
[b]ACS T1s - £609[/b]
Puretone Classic 3 - £609
Lear LCM3 - £440
Rooth LS3 - £400
1964-V3 - £399
Unique Melody Aero - £395
Minerva Mi-3 - £395 (silicon based like the ACS as opposed to acrylic)
Alien Ears C3 - £370

That's quite some spread of costs. If I was looking at spending approx the amount of money on T1s now, I think I would be more likely to push for something like the 1964-V6-S... just for the added headroom over the ACS. Of course, I'd be auditioning the range to see which one works best for my ears... but I would be very interested in hearing the difference between say the Alien Ears and the Westones... and the 1964s and Jerry Harveys for example.

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