Remove please.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360086739' post='1964661']
You couldn't be more wrong. And that mistake will hinder your musicianship. Art most certainly entertains. Bach's music was written as entertainment and has continued to do so for centuries. Michaelangelo, Miles, Picasso, -- all hugely popular. You'd call them clowns and whores?

Art is self growth? I can experience self growth by trying to do as many pushups as possible, but I wouldn't call that art.

You also contradicted yourself when you said art is communication. It isn't communication if no one is listening.
[/quote]

Well I don't know if you're a talker or a player because I haven't heard you play so I really can't take your opinion too seriously. And I will ask nicely to respect my standpoint about art.
All those guys you named have amazed their audiences with their skill. Amazement is not entertainment they are not synonyms.

And finally there's no contradiction in my view because as you could read: communication begins with yourself.

You don't have a clue about how far I've come or how frustrated I am with my musicianship so don't even try to know what pushes me forward or stops me. That's far to arrogant for someone who:

1) just heard something I did when I was 19.
2) hasn't showed his own skills.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Inti

[steantval]

Excellent playing - very impressive.

My problem is I'm old school and 4 strings are enough on basses, Geddy seems to manage with 4 on the very technical Rush stuff.

My question would be that, probably any really good guitarist could possibly pick up a 6 string bass and play the runs you are doing.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='steantval' timestamp='1360097050' post='1964867']
Excellent playing - very impressive.

My problem is I'm old school and 4 strings are enough on basses, Geddy seems to manage with 4 on the very technical Rush stuff.

My question would be that, probably any really good guitarist could possibly pick up a 6 string bass and play the runs you are doing.
[/quote]

Geddy is great, I love that guy! But you cant do this on a four stringed and its not about skills, its about register, thats all the six stringed bass is about. I normally play four strings anyway because I feel I haven't mastered four strings.

The argument you had about the guitarist playing bass...isn't that valid for any bass? I mean a good guitarist could surely play runs on a bass with whatever amount of strings. The bass guitar is a guitar after all. So why not? Luckily for all of us music is so much more than runs.

Thanks for the comment!

Edited February 5, 2013 by Inti

[Lowender]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1360087243' post='1964668']
Well I don't know if you're a talker or a player because I haven't heard you play so I really can't take your opinion too seriously. And I will ask nicely to respect my standpoint about art.
All those guys you named have amazed their audiences with their skill. Amazement is not entertainment they are not synonyms.

And finally there's no contradiction in my view because as you could read: communication begins with yourself.

You don't have a clue about how far I've come or how frustrated I am with my musicianship so don't even try to know what pushes me forward or stops me. That's far to arrogant for someone who:

1) just heard something I did when I was 19.
2) hasn't showed his own skills.
[/quote]

You got a lot to learn bro. Good luck.

[Gust0o]

I wouldn't conflate the vagaries of modern, particularly pop, music with the diversities of a history of music running over thousands of years.

Music has had many utilities in that time: social phenomenon, ritual, communication, art... And, quite rightly, entertainment.

I appreciate you have your frustrations, Inti - but they sometimes seem to consume you, reading the replies above.

In terms of feedback, assuming I'm not too ignorant, I thought the playing good - tight, structured. I appreciated the thought and effort required.

However, I'm with Nige - it didn't move me.

The question, for me - and for the creator - is, did it have to? As entertainment, yes; but I mentioned music has many utilities. As art, communication, "self-growth" it perhaps worked all very well

[Antiloco]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360099394' post='1964911']


You got a lot to learn bro. Good luck.
[/quote]

It's not a matter of luck "Bro". Luck is for amateurs and entertainers. The rest of us work.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Inti

[Grangur]

Your piece is interesting and I salute you for standing up and presenting your skills to be judged by your peers. Your achievment as a 19yr old IMHO considerable.
To be honest, I felt the best part was after 5 mins. It's at this point it slows slightly and I felt there was perhaps more feeling there.

The discussion here is interesting too. Inti, you speak about some of today's music/performers (I won't accredit them as "artists") and you seem to think of them as successful. I agree they bring in sales for recording companies, but will they still be about in 5 yrs time?
Do you imagine Justin Bieber still going at the age of 55 or 70?

The difference between Justin B, The Pussy Cat Dolls and others, and classic bands such as the Rolling Stones IS PASSION and feeling. The Stones were guys who got together like you and your mates did and did what you BELIEVE in. Passion comes with experience and settling into the piece over time. You would probably have got this into this piece if you'd played it night after night for 3 yrs or more.

Some performers will never achieve this passion, simply because it wasn't THEIR idea, they simply applied to an advert from the recording company and they auditioned and got the part - like an actor.

Also.. Wager, Bach and the rest all appealed to the ignorant as well as the musical theorists. If they didn't they wouldn't have come to "popularity" and would never have lasted.

Finally... many thanks for the chance to hear/see you. Your playing is a lot better than me. I applaud you.

[Ghost Rider]

I like the wallpaper, ikea?

Nice playing, the tune sounds a bit like Dream Theater.

[Antiloco]

Gustoo and Grangur, thanks for the nice comments.

Ghost Rider no...not everything is Ikea over here! yes we were very into DT at that time during the images and words, awake era, they were actually much better I think, but I can't stand it anymore. This tune belongs to the keyboardist mostly: Here is one of mine with another band that I had after that. This newer band was called Mahesh:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQVG2p6JPPQ[/media]

Edited February 5, 2013 by Inti

[charic]

[quote name='Ghost Rider' timestamp='1360100217' post='1964930']
Nice playing, the tune sounds a bit like Dream Theater.
[/quote]

That's what struck me too but I think it's based around a lot of the same type of structure that Myung likes to use. I liked it for what it was but just found it didn't hold my attention for all that long, there were moments that made me sit up and think "that worked well" but then it settled again. However this is the way with most music that doesn't incorporate a singer or riffs, it's very hard to hold someones attention with one or both of those. Good playing (better than I can do at any rate) the only thing that bugged me was some of the string sound on the track which could be handled simply by just bringing the bass down in the mix a little


[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360085563' post='1964638']
[color=#FF0000][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]I agree with you on Dream Theater. No songs -- just riffs stuck together.[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

As for this comment I'll direct you to here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU6fmgnWDfk

[Ghost Rider]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1360100721' post='1964939']
Gustoo and Grangur, thanks for the nice comments.

Ghost Rider no...not everything is Ikea over here! yes we were very into DT at that time during the images and words, awake era, they were actually much better I think, but I can't stand it anymore. This tune belongs to the keyboardist mostly: Here is one of mine with another band that I had after that. This newer band was called Mahesh:
[/quote]

Only joking about the wallpaper! I've only seen Dream Theater once & they were great,going back a few years now though. Rush IMO are the Mutts Nuts, Geddy Lee's playing is Great. I know he won't float everyone's boat but hey,that's life...

Cheers, Anth.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='Ghost Rider' timestamp='1360101007' post='1964948']
Only joking about the wallpaper! I've only seen Dream Theater once & they were great,going back a few years now though. Rush IMO are the Mutts Nuts, Geddy Lee's playing is Great. I know he won't float everyone's boat but hey,that's life...

Cheers, Anth.
[/quote]

We agree on that Ghost Rider! Geddy is probably one of my biggest influences ever. His line on Hemispheres changed my life.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1360087243' post='1964668']
Well I don't know if you're a talker or a player because [i]I haven't heard you play [/i] so I really can't take your opinion too seriously.

You don't have a clue about how far I've come or how frustrated I am with my musicianship so don't even try to know what pushes me forward or stops me. That's far to arrogant for someone who:

1) just heard something I did when I was 19.
2) [i]hasn't showed his own skills.[/i]
[/quote]

If these are the rules, then I'm going to insist on you providing evidence of having the skills and abilities to sell 15 million records before you criticise Justin Bieber again.

By your own admission---you're not an entertainer. Again, by your own logic, if you're not an entertainer then you don't have the right to criticise those who are...

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360103318' post='1964992']
By your own admission---you're not an entertainer. Again, by your own logic, if you're not an entertainer then you don't have the right to criticise those who are...
[/quote]

And if you are not an entertainer, why did you record/film a piece, post it on Youtube and then post it on here for lots of bass players to watch? If you are not trying to entertain us what are you trying to do?

[Lowender]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1360099948' post='1964924']
It's not a matter of luck "Bro". Luck is for amateurs and entertainers. The rest of us work.
[/quote]

I sense resentment. Be humble. Everyone can use luck. Lots of people work hard and lots of people are talented failures.

It's almost as if you're using music as a weapon as opposed to a universal language.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1360103812' post='1965007']


And if you are not an entertainer, why did you record/film a piece, post it on Youtube and then post it on here for lots of bass players to watch? If you are not trying to entertain us what are you trying to do?
[/quote]

I'm not trying to entertain anyone, I'm just showing a pair of basslines and musical pieces I made when I was younger.
If it happens to entertain you, well, good for you but don't be bothered if it doesn't because it was never meant to. There's quite a difference between music made for the sake of creation and the one made for entertainment. Don't be mad if not everyone is looking for money or approval. Some of us frankly don't care about money, fame or status and don't use this abstract art form to satisfy our decadent needs. Respect that please.

"Music is an art form whose medium is sound and silence"- Wikipedia.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Inti

[risingson]

Great playing and that, not my thing at all but I can appreciate that real thought has gone into it and I can definitely appreciate it.

Unfortunately I find your ideas concerning what constitutes entertainment and music to be fairly naive, and actually that would be putting it politely, misguided might be a little closer to what I really think. Furthermore you're devaluing the idea that entertainment can be art (which of course it can) and by extension probably alienating yourself from more than a few people on this forum who will pride themselves on being able to entertain whilst maintaining artistic integrity, myself included.

You seem to be unable to accept the criticism being offered to you by numerous people. Whilst you might find this kind of criticism irritating, your replies have read as condescending and pretty arrogant. As a musician that chooses to post his music up onto a forum like this, it's perhaps worth learning the humbling lesson that your ego has to be prepared to take a few knocks here and there, regardless of how ignorant or misinformed you suppose said critics to be. You put the video into the public domain, so however unpalatable it may be for you, you will have to accept that people will want to have their say.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360103979' post='1965009']


I sense resentment. Be humble. Everyone can use luck. Lots of people work hard and lots of people are talented failures.

It's almost as if you're using music as a weapon as opposed to a universal language.
[/quote]
Well I sense some resentment from some people commenting here too, as if there was something wrong in thinking of music as something deep, beautiful and serious.
Don't get stuck in definitions. Music can be whatever you like it to be a weapon, a money-maker and even an art form. It's hard to keep a rigid structure of concepts when everyone thinks they're right about everything and nobody has anything left to learn.
So I will play my song while you play yours. Hopefully we'll both achieve fulfillment in what we do. Just don't force me to play your tune.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1360105271' post='1965039']
Great playing and that, not my thing at all but I can appreciate that real thought has gone into it and I can definitely appreciate it.

Unfortunately I find your ideas concerning what constitutes entertainment and music to be fairly naive, and actually that would be putting it politely, misguided might be a little closer to what I really think. Furthermore you're devaluing the idea that entertainment can be art (which of course it can) and by extension probably alienating yourself from more than a few people on this forum who will pride themselves on being able to entertain whilst maintaining artistic integrity, myself included.

You seem to be unable to accept the criticism being offered to you by numerous people. Whilst you might find this kind of criticism irritating, your replies have read as condescending and pretty arrogant. As a musician that chooses to post his music up onto a forum like this, it's perhaps worth learning the humbling lesson that your ego has to be prepared to take a few knocks here and there, regardless of how ignorant or misinformed you suppose said critics to be. You put the video into the public domain, so however unpalatable it may be for you, you will have to accept that people will want to have their say.
[/quote]

Thanks.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1360104705' post='1965024']
There's quite a difference between music made for the sake of creation and the one made for entertainment. [/quote]

I think its very sad that you think there needs to be a distinction.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360105846' post='1965055']


I think its very sad that you think there needs to be a distinction.
[/quote]

I think it's very sad you're posting here just out of resentment from other threads with nothing constructive to say.

[Lowender]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1360100805' post='1964943']
That's what struck me too but I think it's based around a lot of the same type of structure that Myung likes to use. I liked it for what it was but just found it didn't hold my attention for all that long, there were moments that made me sit up and think "that worked well" but then it settled again. However this is the way with most music that doesn't incorporate a singer or riffs, it's very hard to hold someones attention with one or both of those. Good playing (better than I can do at any rate) the only thing that bugged me was some of the string sound on the track which could be handled simply by just bringing the bass down in the mix a little




As for this comment I'll direct you to here :

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU6fmgnWDfk[/media]
[/quote]

True, that one is a song. But it isn't a very good one.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1360105998' post='1965058']
I think it's very sad you're posting here just out of resentment from other threads with nothing constructive to say.
[/quote]

[Lowender]

It's interesting -- a lot of times on forums when someone post music people will knock it for petty reasons. In most cases they just resent someone else doing something so they have to put it down out of resentment, jealousy or who knows what.. Then they hide behind the "only being honest" or "if you can't take criticism don't post" sayings. They're more interested in being part of a clique than actually learning, sharing and evaluating. But that wasn't the case here at all. Everyone was quite complementary. And in return, the OP has been snarky, condescending and belligerent. Good thing he doesn't care about pleasing people or anyone critiquing to his music, because with that attitude he won't have that worry.'

Edited February 5, 2013 by Lowender

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360106798' post='1965073']
It's interesting -- a lot of times on forums when someone post music people will knock it for petty reasons. In most cases they just resent someone else doing something so they have to put it down out of resentment, jealousy or who knows what.. Then they hide behind the "only being honest" or "if you can't take criticism don't post" sayings. They're more interested in being part of a clique than actually learning, sharing and evaluating. But that wasn't the case here at all. Everyone was quite complementary. And in return, the OP has been snarky, condescending and belligerent. Good thing he doesn't care about pleasing people or anyone critiquing to his music, because with that attitude he won't have that worry.'
[/quote]

I never understood the "you're just jealous" argument (it comes up a lot when discussing people like John Mayer). It just doesn't make sense---I love all sorts of bands that are a million times more talented, richer, more critically acclaimed, and better looking than I will [i]ever[/i] be, but yeah, they're absolutely right, I don't like the youtube video of some random dude playing in his bedroom because I'm jealous