Double bass aplification

[kedo]

Having recently retired from a noisy 5 piece covers band in which I played bass guitar, I am now concentrating on double bass work where I find myself playing jazz and an occasional bit of Scottish. My problem is that I am stuck with a large amp which although brilliant, is too heavy for an over 60 player with no roadie!

The equipment comprises Ashdown Neodynium cabinets; a 2x10 which can be used on its own for smaller gigs, and a 4x10 for larger venues. The head is an Ashdown EVO III 500 with pedal. Its really great stuff, but massive overkill for my present requirements.

My 3/4 bass has a Shadow SH950 bridge pick up and a Boss GEB-7 equaliser.

I know little about amplification for double basses, but the Ashdown, even with just the 2x10 cabinet, is ridiculously large, powerful and heavy for my present requirements.

My question is what kind of amp would be best suited to this instrument played in smaller venues which I can carry without breaking my back? Also would it be worth offering an exchange on the marketplace? From looking at this, I doubt if it would sell outright, although the 2 speaker cabinets and amp all have covers and have been little used.

Another small matter where advice would be appreciated relates to what I think is feedback. I like to get close to my amp so that I can hear what I'm playing. It helps my intonation. However, recently I have been aware of a booming sound which I think must be feedback. It occurs mainly on the G string. Not nice. Perhaps I just have to get further away.

Advice would be appreciated.

[fatback]

It's a bit of a maze alright, but loads of suggestions from experienced folks if you do a search on 'amplification' in this forum. Because the business breaks down into pickup / preamp, amp and cab, and their effects interact, it can be tricky. Pricey business, so you might want to go one step at a time.

Your feedback problem would maybe benefit from a low frequency cut on your preamp or a notch filter. You might sort it with the Boss or you might benefit from a different preamp (with the db gubbins like phase switching). If you get a lightweight micro amp, you might have those bells and whistles included anyhow. Go for a transparent amp if you can.

Light weight cab is next. Lots of choice now. Some prefer 10s, some 12s. Arguably a 1X 12 is most versatile.

I was lucky in that i got it right first time (for me, namely small but loudish gigs) with amp (Euphonic Audio Doubler) and cab (Barefaced Midget). I had a hard and expensive road finding the right pickup though.

But expensive comes with the db territory.

Edited January 29, 2013 by fatback

[thisnameistaken]

Getting further away is always good. Amps that are designed specifically for acoustic instruments often have a phase-reverse switch which can sometimes help you avoid feedback. They also often feature notch filtering so if you've got a narrow band that is causing problems you can pull it out.

Amps designed for acoustics are probably the best solution for you but they can be expensive (look up Acoustic Image!). If you want something cheaper but still light then go for a Class D head with a fairly flat sound (maybe a Genz Benz Shuttle) and a 1x10 or 1x12 neo cabinet, and you can add feedback-dodging tricks by getting a specialist preamp like the Fishman Platinum Pro Bass.

[tinyd]

I'm on a bit of a budget (i.e. can't afford GK/Acoustic Image gear) and I use a Roland Bass Cube 100 - it works pretty well for me. However, I did also shell out for a Fishman Platinum Pro as suggested above by @thisnameistaken, which makes a huge difference.

[fatback]

On the feedback problem, using the Boss to take out the extreme lows or using it as a notch filter might do the trick without the expense of a Fishman. You might not need phase shifting.

Edited January 29, 2013 by fatback

[ubassman]

Its all a very personal thing depending on the sound you are after and no doubt many will chip in with different solutions!

Quite a few players that I know love the sound and portability of the Gallien Kruger MB112 combo - pretty affordable at around £300 new and great sound that pulls the best from a bass in a small venue. Heres a link to some info if you fancy delving a bit more into this one http://www.thomann.de/gb/gallien_krueger_mb112.htm

Any amp is only as good as the pick up and if you are chasing a really pure acoustic sound you may need to look at an alternative to your piezo type of pick up . A Schertler 'DYN-B' at around £500 is very expensive but worth it . This pick up and amp makes for a very natural bass sound ! http://www.schertler.com/homepage_schertler/dynb-en.html


Perhaps stating the obvious here but if you raise up the amp on a stool to get it to chest height it will be much easier to hear?

[shizznit]

I haven't touched DB for years, but I managed very well with a AER 12" combo which was borrowed from a friend (I forget which model it was). Most players I have seen in recent years use Gallien Krueger MB combos, EA iAmp through a Whizzy cab, AER combos and Roland Bass Cubes. I very rarely see players using anything bigger than a 12" cab or combo on stage.

Fatback is spot on about the natural transparency of the amp. For acoustic instruments you need an amp that has a very flat response and is not coloured by built in high and low pass filters. You can get by with a Mark Bass, Genz Benz, EBS and all the other great D-class amps, but you may find yourself not using the pre-shape features. Best to go for an amp that is very clean and uncomplicated and invest in a quality pickup and preamp.

I bought an EA iAmp 500 which was amazing for DB, but soon packed in DB playing soon after I bought it. If I decide to go back to DB playing again anytime soon I would seriously consider an EA iAmp Micro into a Whizzy 12. Small, light, very portable and great performance. A friend (the same friend that let me use his AER combo 12yrs ago) has been using this amp setup for the past couple of years and sounds incredible.

[fatgoogle]

I gigged my new setup of a revolution solo pickup and my GK mb500 and 1x12 neo cab a few nights ago for the first time with a loudish folky style group, without a preamp in between the pickup and the amp. Got very loud and no feedback at all.I must have looked a bit of a dick though with a double bass on my back and a trolley with amp in front walking to and from the gig but still it worked and i was very surprised and best of all it sounded good. Also works really well with electric. Very light, loud and not too expensive.

Im planning of getting an f-deck preamp possible, anyone used one?

Edited January 29, 2013 by fatgoogle

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='fatgoogle' timestamp='1359466254' post='1955113']Im planning of getting an f-deck preamp possible, anyone used one?[/quote]

Not used one but I think slobluesine is selling one at the moment if you want one. The series 2 model.

[bassace]

There's a lot of good stuff here. I like a Wizzy 10" for small gigs but with this size I don't like to have the cab mounted on anything to give it extra height. Although a cab in this position can be easier for the player to hear, I prefer the cab where the floor coupling can give a better amount of fullness. A bit too much bass (rare IME with a ten) can be HPF'd or EQ'd out.

[Clarky]

I have a Series 3 fdeck. Smart little pedal that has a phase switch and a high pass filter (cuts out boomy low frequencies) - pretty much all you need in front of a regular amp to bring give it DB-specific functionality. The Series 3 has a more complex algorithm for teh high pass filter and is metal (as opposed to plastic) encased but the Series 2 is probably just as good in practice.

PS, I happen to be selling the same amp fatgoogle uses (GK MB500) - sorry, cheeky I know!

[fatgoogle]

Did you use your Mb500 with a DB at all? Any eq settings. I cut some bass and treble and left everything flat with the contour all the way off. Seemed to work quite nicely with my bass.

[Clarky]

tbh, didn't work so well with my DB (bit trebly, so I had to cut a lot) but then I was using a BassMax pickup which is not as faithful as my new Ehrlund pickup. In other words I probably didn't give it a fair crack of the whip. Several guys on TalkBass like the MB500 (and smaller MB200) very much for DB, so I think I am rather unrepresentative

[oggiesnr]

If you like Ashdown gear why not look at one of their EVO II combos? I'm using a 180 at the moment which seems to work OK.

Steve

[Bilbo]

Acoustic Image all the way. Sell a kidney....

[artisan]

a big up for Roland amps from me,my D-Bass 210 is awesome for db & it even my little basscube 30 is good for db too so i'd think one of the louder bass cube's would suit you very well indeed.
i play in a 50's band & use my 30watt bass cube at rehersal & it does the job very well indeed (we don't have or need a drummer)
used a Boss GEB7 pedal for quite a while but was always fighting the feedback,as mentioned above the Fishman pro-platinum bass is worth its weight in gold.

[TheRev]

The Genz Benz shuttle 3.0 10T would be a tidy little combo amp for DB. If your budget won't stretch that far, the Ibanez Promethean combo could be a good choice.
The boom you're hearing probably isn't feedback but just the low frequencies produced by your bass. A dedicated double bass preamp with a high pass filter (HPF) will improve the sound no end.

[fatback]

Nothing against the Fishman, it's excellent, but unless you're lucky to get one second hand it's not cheap.

When you're pricing an amp, keep in mind that if it has notch filter and phase reversal built in, you're saving over a hundred quid on the preamp bit. Acoustic Image, Euphonic Audio etc often have all those gubbins already.

[kedo]

Great advice from everyone. Thanks. I'm taking it all in slowly. I'm doing a gig on Friday so I'll put all the advice into practice.

[bassace]

Enjoy your gig. Don't let us confuse you too much!

[artisan]

as above enjoy your gig & be prepared to fight the feedback.
if you are using your Boss GEB-7 & your bass is anything like mine be careful with the 120hz slider on your eq,that was the main feedback area for me i used to have to cut it drastically to kill the howl.

[kedo]

Thanks for all your help. My gig last night went well and I benefited from all your advice. Artisan's advice about the 120 slider worked well, and getting a bit further away from the amp was good too. I'm about to try my stuff on ebay with a view to looking around at some more portable amps, and your suggestions will be invaluable. If it doesn't sell on ebay I'll try it on Basschat's marketplace where it could be sold separately. By the way, returning to the Double Bass after a lifetime playing bass guitar is amazing. My grounding with the DB was classical and I hadn't played one for years and certainly never amplified. I can see myself selling my bass guitars! What a sound! I have many more questions you can help me with.

Thanks again.

[thisnameistaken]

Wow, brilliant.

I warn you though there's nothing in the bass guitar world that compares to the expense of trying to get the sound you want from your double bass - especially amplified. Very satisfying when it works though.

[artisan]

Glad to hear it went well,it's great isn't it.
I only starter on DB last year but l'm totally hooked now,my poor bass guitar hardly gets a look in now.

[Gareth Hughes]

Don't forget to dampen the afterlength of your strings (the bit between the bridge and the tailpiece) as they can cause feedback too. Took me ages to figure that out.