Dead E-string on Musicman Sabre

[ahpook]

i've decided it's time to sort out why the E-string on my sabre goes dead so quickly.

for instance - at the start of this fettling i restrung with status hotwires (although this issue turns up with all the strings i've tried), and within a day the E-string's dead compared with the rest of the set (which sound great - zingy and fresh).

so, to be systematic i've...

i) removed the bridge, cleaned the off the ~30-year gunk underneath and made sure eveything mates nicely.
ii) taken the bridge apart and cleaned it.
iii) cut a small square of steel to put underneath the E-string saddle screws as the bridge is a little chewed where the screws touch the bridge.
iv) restrung and pressed the string well down over the bridge to get a good break angle.
v) ensured the strings aren't twisted.
vi) lowered both pickups almost as far as they'll go to make sure the monster magnets aren't messing with the strings

and [i]still[/i] the E sounds thuddy and lifeless.

i did check out the nut as well, but it looks fine - no cracks, but as the string sounds dead on fretted notes too...

i really am scratching my head about this, so any ideas would be welcome.

Edited September 17, 2012 by ahpook

[LukeFRC]

take the E string off and stick it on another bass. That will tell you if something on the bass is breaking something in the string.

Is the tension the same/similar as the zingy strings?

[lettsguitars]

Is the pickup too close on the bass side? What pickup is it? The nut slot would affect the string even on fretted notes. Loose tuner?

[charic]

Does it "go" dead or start dead? Can you try putting a different string on it (say the a,d or g and just see if that sounds "dead" too.

[lettsguitars]

Try a lighter guage. Is the slot at the saddle too small?

[ahpook]

ok folks - thanks for the troubleshooting tips, they're rfeally appreciated.

E-string on a different bass - sounds pretty much the same
A-string from the same bass - zingtastic
you can hear the e-string's sounding different to the others pretty much by the time you're tuned to pitch, and then by a day or so later it's more washing line than roundwound.
lighter guage ? i'm on 100-40's as it is.

[ahpook]

so i suppose this points to either my string winding technique...?

the sabre's strung with ~2 1/2 turns of the string on the tuning head, same as all my basses...

hmmmm

[tommorichards]

Shot in the dark here but could it be that you ar playing the e string most with your fingers and you have some sort of detrimental acid that oozes out destroying the string sound?

[ahpook]

[quote name='tommorichards' timestamp='1347895358' post='1806287']
Shot in the dark here but could it be that you ar playing the e string most with your fingers and you have some sort of detrimental acid that oozes out destroying the string sound?
[/quote]

i'm usually on a plectrum when playing the sabre, and i've never had this problem with any other basses...but thanks for the idea.

i'm looking for anything at the mo.

[tommorichards]

what about your fretting hand? Does the string go dead on any other basses?

[ahpook]

[quote name='tommorichards' timestamp='1347903283' post='1806452']
what about your fretting hand? Does the string go dead on any other basses?
[/quote]

nope - not at all.

[johnthebassist]

Hey there. I play a '79 Sabre and strung it up with a set of (exposed core) La Bella Super Steps recently - exactly the same problem. As soon as I threw on a set of the usual Slinky's it was back to normal again.

The only other probable causes I can think of for your string woes would be either your neck pickup is set too high (the magnets in the older exposed pole-piece models like mine are mega-strong and notorious for pulling on the strings) or that square of metal you installed at the bridge is shifting around and losing resonance.

I hope you get it sorted ok - they're suck killer basses, a real secret-weapon. Have you gigged it much?

Edited September 17, 2012 by johnthebassist

[ahpook]

[quote name='johnthebassist' timestamp='1347907478' post='1806522']
Hey there. I play a '79 Sabre and strung it up with a set of (exposed core) La Bella Super Steps recently - exactly the same problem. As soon as I threw on a set of the usual Slinky's it was back to normal again.

The only other probable causes I can think of for your string woes would be either your neck pickup is set too high (the magnets in the older exposed pole-piece models like mine are mega-strong and notorious for pulling on the strings) or that square of metal you installed at the bridge is shifting around and losing resonance.

I hope you get it sorted ok - they're suck killer basses, a real secret-weapon. Have you gigged it much?
[/quote]

well, i'm not glad you've had the same problem...but thank god i'm not missing something obvious !!

the tone of the E-string was the same with the little plate in, but i'll pop it out now and see if there's any change. i'm almost certain it's not a magnet issue - i've had the neck pickup down so low the mounting lugs are well below the scratchplate and the problem's still there.

so...think a set of slinkys would be in order ? what would you recomment for a 40-60-80-100 guy ?

thanks for the help

[johnthebassist]

No worries! I use super slinkys: 45, 65, 80, 100. They're not the cheapest (or the most expensive), but they're nickelwound and they'll sound great on your Sabre I usually buy mine from Stringbusters.

Alternatively, you could try D'Addario Nickelplated Roundwounds - the custom light gauge is 40 - 100. they're a bit cheaper than EB's too

I hope the change of strings sorts the problem out for you! Just so you know, my lugs of my Sabre's neck pickup sit 2-3mm above the scratchplate. Does yours have the original exposed polepiece type or the 80's flat pickups?

[ahpook]

[quote name='johnthebassist' timestamp='1347913074' post='1806649']
No worries! I use super slinkys: 45, 65, 80, 100. They're not the cheapest (or the most expensive), but they're nickelwound and they'll sound great on your Sabre I usually buy mine from Stringbusters.

Alternatively, you could try D'Addario Nickelplated Roundwounds - the custom light gauge is 40 - 100. they're a bit cheaper than EB's too

I hope the change of strings sorts the problem out for you! Just so you know, my lugs of my Sabre's neck pickup sit 2-3mm above the scratchplate. Does yours have the original exposed polepiece type or the 80's flat pickups?
[/quote]

excellent - i'll get onto stringbusters and order some of the D'Addarios now - i use their guitar and VI strings and have been impressed so far...spesh if they're cheaper !

my sabre's a 1979/80 (neck's one year, body the other), so it's the staggered exposed polepieces.

really do appreciate your suggestions, top stuff.

[johnthebassist]

You're more than welcome! Feel free to gimme a shout any time

[JTUK]

If you really want to eliminate strings from the equation, I'd put Newtone Diamonds on it..and keep to the same gauge within 2 thou or so which they make.
I think you can get them from Stringbusters or Strings Direct, I can't recall who handles them, but I go direct anyway.

I am on my fifth set and they are the best string out of the pack I've tried..and since I changed basses these last few years, I've tried most.
Having said that..if you know and like pro steels, then no problem, they are decent when I tried them

[ahpook]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1347919474' post='1806784']
If you really want to eliminate strings from the equation, I'd put Newtone Diamonds on it..and keep to the same gauge within 2 thou or so which they make.
I think you can get them from Stringbusters or Strings Direct, I can't recall who handles them, but I go direct anyway.

I am on my fifth set and they are the best string out of the pack I've tried..and since I changed basses these last few years, I've tried most.
Having said that..if you know and like pro steels, then no problem, they are decent when I tried them
[/quote]

thanks for the tip - might be a bit priccy for me at the moment, but if the skinkys don't help then i'll be onto newtone.

[ahpook]

i strung up the sabre with the D'Addarios today and 1st impressions are that it's a vast improvement.

i'm going to reserve judgement until they've bedded in, but blimey - what a change 1

[lettsguitars]

I mentioned trying a lighter guage just to see if the slots were too tight etc. On a side note, I wind as little string on to the tuner as possible. Generally I cut the string at the next tuner peg and end up with just under a full turn.

[daz]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1348088743' post='1809261']
I mentioned trying a lighter guage just to see if the slots were too tight etc. On a side note, I wind as little string on to the tuner as possible. Generally I cut the string at the next tuner peg and end up with just under a full turn.
[/quote]

Hmm I do the exact opposite. I was always taught to put the full length of a string on, and wind it down from the top of the tuning peg to the bottom. Thereby pulling the string down as low as possible and getting the maximum angle from the nut to the tuner. This gives the string its truest sound.

[christopherbassmay]

Are you putting a 90' crimp on the end of your string when you put it in the maching head? If not that could be the cause of your woes if not done correctly,and more so on low b's and e's.The end of the string will start to unwind in the machine head and the string will die and the intonation will go out in a flash. And you want as little string as you can on the machine head post but you do want to wind from top to bottom to pull the string into the top nut.

[ahpook]

my stringing method (which i use on all my basses, including those what have nice happy E-strings) is to angle the end of the cut string though ~90 deg and i usually have 2-3 turns around the tuning peg.

the nickels sound great after a few weeks - slight dulling as you'd expect, but the E is as strong as ever.

[ahpook]

well, to come back to this thread, i've been playing the sabre a bit over the last few days after it being in the case for a month or two and...

the E sounds like washing line again, but the rest of the strings are zing city.

i'm starting to lose hope...i dunno, a new nut maybe ?

Edited March 23, 2013 by ahpook

[ahpook]

here's some [url="http://snd.sc/YuDnng"]sound samples[/url]...


1st 4 notes are on the G,D,A and E strings and then the 1st and 2nd of the Gmaj scale are played on the E-string.

can you hear the thud and lack of sustain compared with the other 4 strings ? no bite ?

Edited March 23, 2013 by ahpook